Church and State

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Church and State

Is there a separation of Church and the State? Some will say that the "Founding Fathers" never intended for church and state to be completely separate.

They will say that religion based on the Bible was indispensable to the moral foundation of the nation they were creating.

That may be true concerning a moral people being essential to a free society but no one should assume that the constitution is biblical because it is not, Nor should we assume that everyone who professes Christian morals actually have the morals of Christ.


Separation of Church and state

Thomas Jefferson’s letter concerning the "separation of church and state" was actually to the Danbury Baptist "association".

Almost all social welfare in the Americas was provided through charity by the actions of such associations.

We should ask and examine what the definition of religion was when Jefferson wrote the letter.

Religion was defined at that time as “Real piety in practice[1], consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men”[2].

Religion was simply how a nation, the people or a society, takes care of its needy and therefore how they serve the God or gods they have chosen for themselves.[3]

If you ask Google what religion is it will not tell you it is a duty but it is no more than "what you think about a supreme being".

There was no welfare state in America like Horatio Bunce, David Crockett and most American people would and did oppose such degenerate ideas because of the iniquity of it.

Now that we know the definition of religion that Jefferson knew we can reread the text of his letter with a better understanding of to be context of his meaning.


"To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut."

Gentlemen

"The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction, my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and, in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing."

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplatep with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State. Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect,

[He first wrote: "confining myself therefore to the duties of my station, which are merely temporal, be assured that your religious rights shall never be infringed by any act of mine and that." But then crossed out those lines and then wrote: "concurring with"; but having crossed out these two words, he wrote: "Adhering to this great act of national legislation in behalf of the rights of conscience"; next he crossed out these words and wrote: "Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience I shall see with friendly dispositions the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced that he has no natural rights in opposition to his social duties."]

"I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & the Danbury Baptist [your religious] association assurances of my high respect & esteem."

Thomas Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

The definition of religion 200 years ago and 2000 years ago included the duty to our fellow man to love him as ourselve,


Jefferson mentions his duties several times and also the right of individuals to perform "social duties" only as "rights of conscience" which are to be performed "with friendly dispositions".

John the Baptist spoke of those duties telling us to repent and seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

At that time many sought the disposition of a social utopia though force as opposed to the "friendly disposition" which John direct us to do through sharing "coat" and "meats"[4] in charity.

Jefferson promotes the "progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights".

This welfare through charity by Americans is what made the nation great according to Alexis de Tocqueville and "legal charity" has become pervasive in the U S and the "world" since FDR's New Deal and the steady progressive move toward the "welfare state".

The Bible tells you that "pure Religion" is taking care of the needy of the Christian society like widows and orphans without the covetous practices of the men in government who call themselves benefactors but exercise force through that same legal charity of the welfare state.

State vs state

Early Israel was a republic where the leaders, the Levites, were titular and separate and public servants, providing public welfare through charity, which in the Old Testament was called freewill offerings. They also attended to the weightier matters by providing an appeals court system through the cities of refuge.

There was no king, presidents, nor prime-ministers but each man was king in his own family and his wife and bride was his queen for they were no more twain but one. There was no rulers like FDR and LBJ who provided welfare through legal charity by way of men who exercise authority. This freedom is only provided by fervent charity of the free people who gathered in free assemblies because they loved their neighbor as themselves.

The state of the people was the state of freedom and liberty. They belonged to themselves where there was no tribute but to God provided by freewill offerings to the true public servants of a free society and fellowship. These Levites who provided the essential services of society as a communion of righteousness who were separate because they belonged to God. This gave the Levites a status that provided them a position or standing in the Law of Nations as a body without taking away the rights of the individual through force, fear and fealty.

There was virtually no taxation but only tithes to the ministers of society. You organized that free society and supported the ministers of your choice "according to his service".

The militia of society was bound by love and charity through the perfect law of liberty and a daily ministration of a righteous welfare as a band of brothers not by the legal bonds of force, fear, and oaths of fealty.

They would have to attend to the Weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith which include caring for the needs of our neighbors and the widows and orphans of our society through Pure Religion in matters of health, education, and welfare. We are NOT to provide for the needy of society through the Covetous Practices and the men who call themselves benefactors but who exercise authority one over the other like the socialists do.

The Way of Christ was like neither the way of the world of Rome nor the governments of the gentiles who depend on those fathers of the earth through force, fear and fealty who deliver the people back in bondage again like they were in Egypt. Christ's ministers and true Christians do not depend upon systems of social welfare that force the contributions of the people like the corban of the Pharisees which made the word of God to none effect. Many people have been deceived to go the way of Balaam and the Nicolaitan and out of The Way of Christ and have become workers of iniquity.

The Christian conflict with Rome in the first century Church appointed by Christ was because they would not apply to the fathers of the earth for their free bread but instead relied upon a voluntary network providing a daily ministration to the needy of society through Faith, Hope, and Charity by way of freewill offerings of the people, for the people, and by the people through the perfect law of liberty in Free Assemblies according to the ancient pattern of Tuns or Tens as He commanded.

The modern Christians are in need of repentance.

"Follow me!" —Jesus the Christ.

But through the righteous cities of refuge the justice that lives in the heats and minds of the people would bless the nation.

Be ye Separate

"Did Christ exclude interaction with man's government, or even the unbeliever with His call for separation?"

"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:" Matthew 25:32

Christ did say "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6:33

He also said "...Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s." Luke 20:25

Paul when talking to the Corinthians he said "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:17

Many people use this single line to justify not paying Caesar and even dishonoring the vows of their fathers. Paul was talking to the Corinthians as if they were his children[6] and telling them to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers because we were not to have fellowship with unrighteousness. [7]

The word here for fellowship[8] here in 2 Corinthians 6:14 only appears once in the Bible. The word in the Greek is metoche and has to do with sharing and communion and is from the word metecho. [9]

Normally the word in the Bible for fellowship is koinonia.[10] It also has to do with communion but more in the sense of community and association. The Greek word metecho specifically has to do with partaking as in eating of the same table.

Eating of Benefactors who set their table by exercising authority is contrary to Christ, Moses and even Proverbs where we are told to put a knife to our throat rather than eat with those men.[11]

What and to who was Paul talking to and why?

The Latin inscription of 1st century AD. in ancient Corinth of Greece reads, "Erastus...bore the expense of this pavement." This is "Erastus" of Romans 16:23 as a city official.

Paul's friend Erastus was the "public treasurer of Corinth" by the name of Erastus. He was trying to influence all of Corinth to switch to a system of Corban that would make the word of God to effect because it would depend on freewill offerings rather than covetous system of social Welfare that depended on force.

He was trying to influence the people of a whole nation to change their ways and he understood how agreements with governments and the men who call themselves Benefactors yokes the people unequally.[12]

Paul understood that if you make an accord according to the ways of Belial[13] and the Nicolaitan.

Paul is trying to teach a whole nation the Perfect law of liberty [14]

He is talking about the idea of not making covenants or agreements[15] with the people where you go which is as old as the Ten Commandments[16] and even the Garden[17].

Paul also talks about being righteous and how we must free ourselves righteously or continue as servants in righteousness.[18]

Remember it is the Spirit that giveth life and being in His Spirit is the tie that binds us together as a body free or bond. [19]

We of His Church like Israel are supposed to be a priest to all nations. We are to set an example of righteousness in all things. Israel when called were in bondage to Pharaoh and they continued serving him until they were cast out. They also learned to serve one another in hard times and even helped other Egyptians. This same pattern was repeated with Christ and in the early Church.

We are prodigal sons returning to our Father's house. We must come to serve not be served or we come not in the name of Christ.

Christ was rich but made himself poor and Paul the Apostle was also rich in funds and authority but made himself a servant of the people by the way of Christ.[20]

This is what Christ called out His Church to be and to do. The ministers are to make themselves servants of Christ by leading the people in service one to another. The people are to be a part of that service by supporting the faithful.

1 Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

The word "infidel" is from the Greek word apistos[21] meaning the unbelieving. Them that believe not.

Believe not what?

The ministers of Christ tend to the Daily ministration by charity so that the people will learn to sacrifice for one another in love as Christ sacrificed for us. This was the righteous Corban of Christ and the corbanus of the early Church.

Christians are to be one form of government who become Benefactors without exercising authority or force. Any priest or pastor, minister, monk or mullah, or rabbi, rector or representative who does not seek to provide the needs of society through charity alone betrays the God of creation and all the true prophets of God.

Jesus talked about His ministers not being of the world.[22] Understanding what world he was talking about may clarify His divine position concerning being separate.

We have a choice to seek to live by faith, hope and charity through the perfect law of liberty or by force, fear and covetous practices through the governments of the world. That is what separates a peculiar people as children of God from the adversaries of God and the workers of iniquity. The true servants of God are separate and even excluded from many of the benefits offered by the world which most modern church ministers refuse to see. To be true ministers of Christ they must repent the ways of force and seek to provide for the needy according to the way of love.

Many want to come out, but who wants to come out and serve like Christ and daily lay down their life for their fellow man in pure religion and to set the table of the LORD in true Christian fellowship? Moses and Christ called out their ministers to go in and out, and in that interaction they would bless the world in righteousness.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake." Luke 6:22

Death of the states

The death of freedom comes with the death of righteousness.

"Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." 1 Corinthians 10:21

The practice of pure Religion through charity rather than public religion through "legal charity" is critical to repentance.

Repenting is the changing of the mind. Today, that likely means admitting that some things we have believed to be okay with God are actually deeds hated by God. Deeds or actions that we once thought were okay for a Christian to do are actually unacceptable, even in opposition to the doctrines of Jesus.

Like the covetous practices of desiring benefits from men in government who call themselves benefactors but exercise authority′ by taking from your neighbor and giving to you is clearly against the teachings of Christ and The Way.

Welfare of the world for the modern Christian is provided by men "who exercise authority one over the other".

Those modern Christians have become accustomed to getting there daily bread their benefits at the expense of their neighbor, not by charity and love for one another but by the force and authority of men in governments who call themselves those"benefactors.

Jesus was clear without question that His followers in His direct teachings and instructions:

Luke 22:25 "And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. 26 But ye shall not be so: .. " see also Mark 10:42 and Matthew 20:25

It would appear that desiring a benefit at other people's expense would come in conflict with the teachings of Christ to say nothing of such policies falling under what can only be "covetous practices".

Yet, almost every modern [[denominations|denomination from pontiffs to protestants says it is okay to desire and have an appetite for the those benefits of those governments who provide a daily ministration and ][daily bread]] by the "legal charity" of the exercising authority of ruler or neighbors one over the other as has become customary in almost all modern governments.

To desire such benefits while claiming to be a believer in Christ and His teachings is a house divided.


"But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." 1 Corinthians 10:20

History is repeat with the warnings of apostles to prophets and Polybius to Plutarch.

"I am deeply convinced that any permanent, regular administrative system whose aim will be to provide for the needs of the poor will breed more miseries than it can cure, will deprave the population that it wants to help and comfort, will in time reduce the rich to being no more than the tenant-farmers of the poor, will dry up the sources of savings, will stop the accumulation of capital, will retard the development of trade, will benumb human industry and activity, and will culminate by bringing about a violent revolution in the State..." Alexis de Tocqueville 1840 volume of Democracy:

  1. ↑ At the same time piety was defined as the duty to your Father and Mother and through them to others with in your community.
  2. ↑ Religion “Real piety in practice[1], consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men.” John Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary
  3. ↑ Judges 10:14 Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.
  4. ↑ Luke 3:11 "He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise."
  5. ↑ Matthew 20:25-26 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
    Mark 10:42-43 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
    Luke 22:25-26 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
  6. ↑ 2 Corinthians 6:13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto [my] children,) be ye also enlarged.
  7. ↑ 2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
  8. ↑ 3352 ~μετοχή~ metoche \@met-okh-ay’\@ from 3348; n f AV-fellowship 1; 1 1) a sharing, communion, fellowship
  9. ↑ 3348 ~μετέχω~ metecho \@met-ekh’-o\@ from 3326 and 2192; v AV-be partaker 5, take part 1, use 1, pertain 1; 8 1) to be or become partaker 2) to partake
  10. ↑ 2842 ~κοινωνία~ koinonia \@koy-nohn-ee’-ah\@ from 2844; n f AV-fellowship 12, communion 4, communication 1, distribution 1, contribution 1, to communicate 1; 20 1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse 1a) the share which one has in anything, participation 1b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy 1b1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office) 1c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
  11. ↑ Proverbs 23:1 ¶ When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what [is] before thee: 2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. 3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat. 4 ¶ Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. 5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven. 6 ¶ Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. 8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words. 9 ¶ Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. 10 ¶ Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless: 11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.
  12. ↑ 2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
  13. ↑ 2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord (sumphonesis meaning agreement) hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
  14. ↑ 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
  15. ↑ 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
  16. ↑ Exodus 23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
  17. ↑ Genesis 26:28 And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath betwixt us, [even] betwixt us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;
  18. ↑ 1 Corinthians 7:21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
  19. ↑ 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
  20. ↑ 1 Corinthians 9:19 "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more."
  21. ↑ 571 ~ἄπιστος~ apistos \@ap’-is-tos\@ from 1 (as a negative particle) and 4103; adj AV-that believe not 6, unbelieving 5, faithless 4, unbeliever 4, infidel 2, thing incredible 1, which believe not 1; 23 1) unfaithful, faithless, (not to be trusted, perfidious) 2) incredible 2a) of things 3) unbelieving, incredulous 3a) without trust (in God)
  22. ↑ John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
    John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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