Marriage question
Questions about marriage
- Why is the issue of Holy Matrimony vs Marriage important?
- Why is a separation of His Church and the duties of ministers from the State important?
- What can the gay Romanian teach us about the contractual nature of government?
- Is the power of the state a symptom or the problem?
- What is the problem and what is the cure?
- How does Abraham's walk, Moses system of altars and The Way of Jesus work?
- Question is addressed in this broadcast:
Play or download
Tony asked
I've read the article on Holy Matrimony vs Marriage by brother Gregory. My questions are,
If a man and woman is married by the state and not a Holy Matrimony under God, that pretty much means that if they have sex they are committing fornication, which is a sin?
Does the couple have to divorce under the state marriage and then have a Holy Matrimony under God to make it right with God?
God Bless,
Tony
Author's first response
First Response from author of Holy Matrimony vs Marriage
The fornication or adultery is when you invited the state into your marriage and gave them power over the relationship and the products of that relationship.
http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Adultery
The marriage contract and union is not the real problem but a symptom of the problem. Generations ago your ancestors started making covenants with the world often to obtain benefits. This brought them into bondage.
Divorce is not a real solution and may be inappropriate if you are not addressing the real problems.
Those problems are addressed by seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
Israel and early Christians were kicked out of their bondage because they started doing what God said to do from the beginning. They started caring about and for their neighbor as much as for themselves. This not only caused the Pharaoh and the Pharisees to kick them out but they were better prepared when they had to leave.
Right now if the husband dies their wife and child are more likely to be cared for by the State than by what is posing as the Church or by fellow kingdom seekers. The modern church has no daily ministration to speak of and will not if the people will not gather together in the name or character of Christ.
Everyone wants to be free but who wants to be righteous?
Brother Gregory
Steve remarks
Steve author of "Social Security: Mark of the Beast!" responded to Tony:
Steve wrote "Man and woman cannot be married by the state. Such "marriage" is equivalent to a gay marriage. There is no such thing as a government "marriage"."
While the first chapter of the book Covenants of the gods is about the marriage contract with the state, not getting a State marriage certificate offers little or no protection from the State interference in the natural domestic relationship os Husband and Wife because of all those other contracts with the State mentioned in the other chapters of that book.
We cannot and should not give legal advice to people of the world.
The power of contract can work both way but seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness will play an important part in the return to the perfect law of liberty.[1]
The process of "repentance" is a focus on our responsibilities as much as our rights. But this will include and equal concern for our neighbors rights as much as our own.[2]
What are the terms of your marriage if you do not write them out and affirm them the State will do it for you.
Steve also wrote, "If a VALID marriage gets to a divorce court, it will be upheld."
What I believe he means is a two party Holy Matrimony agreement will be seen as valid but it may not warrant legal protections nor many of the benefits of a legally certified State marriage.[3]
Steve gives "Two examples":
1. An 1873 law encyclopedia about marriage law contrasts a divorceable marriage with “a regular marriage”. Proof of a church wedding “would stop the case”. (Theophilus Parsons, Law of Contracts, Boston, Little, Brown & Co., Sixth Edition, 1873, Volume III, page 85 (indexed as page 80) )
2. Shelford's 1841 textbook Treatise of the Law of Marriage (A Practical Treatise of The Law of Marriage and Divorce by Leonard Shelford, Littell Publishers, Philadelphia, 1841 ) mentions, on page 331 that the first wife can divorce her husband's second marriage:
"If a man has solemnized matrimony with one, and afterwards marries another, if the lawful wife desires to be restored to her husband, she may institute a suit in a cause of divorce from the tie of the second marriage, and of restitution of conjugal rights."
Terry Responded to Steve
It *seems* like terms and authority references are being confused and intermingled.
Black’s Law Dictionary is a secondary authority.
It would seem that one primary authority, for the conclusions drawn, should be declared. Is it a civil statute? Natural Law? Mosaic Law? Can we intermingle terms and concepts from “primary" authorities?
Does Black’s Law Dictionary have a place as a secondary authority used to interpret God’s Law, Natural Law or civil laws only?
I’m very interested in this conversation and here to learn, I don’t know everything and am saying “it seems".
Peace, Terry
Terry you are on the right track.
"Words are the signs of ideas."
Context will often determine which definition of a word to use or apply. But context is not merely the phrase or sentence in which a term appears but the venue and jurisdiction and even the time in which appears.
The venue and jurisdiction may be altered by the status of the participants. People sold into bondage by their parents may not have the capacity to enter into Holy Matrimony except in spirit.
Originally marriage was the act of giving someone into the union of marriage. In science marriage is "a combination or mixture of two or more elements."
States define marriage for their purposes in a variety of different places in ore than one way.
When I wrote the "Covenants of the gods" I was merely showing people how they became entangled again in the yoke of bondage. The way out is to repent, think a different way, and seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness in all things and everything else will be provided.
If you love your wife or husband, marry in the Church regardless of other union. Teach your children the true history of the kingdom and The Ways of God. Gather together in congregations networked together for the purposes of charity and hope. Sacrifice and serve one another, forgive your parents, your neighbors, your enemies including the state and forgive yourself.
Brother Gregory
Terry responds from his phone
So, the direct answer to Tony’s question might be: Holy Matrimony is more than having a “marriage” outside of the civil system. It requires preparation, acceptance of responsibility and forgiveness. Work that could take more than generation to accomplish.
Does rejecting the civil system have value if we haven’t laid the foundation for God’s system, if we are not pursuing and striving for God’s Kingdom?
Author responds, "Yes!"
"Without setting our first priority to seek of the Kingdom of God and His righteousness through the daily ministration of Pure Religion according to the Doctrines of Jesus any attempt to overthrow, deny or abandon the civil marriage or any social contract in which we may find ourselves bound or snared is likely to be unfruitful."
The first instruction of His Doctrine to Seek the Kingdom of God is a "process" that is prefaced by repentance. To repent is to change one's mind or in truth allow ones mind to be changed by the Holy Spirit.
Again the purpose of the book "Covenants of the gods", and therefore the Chapter on Marriage, was to show us how blind we have been. We were blinded by the idea that we can figure out what is "good and evil" and solve the problem with our own intellect and actions. That is eating of the tree of knowledge.
Rejecting the civil system before we have truly repented may cause us to sink deeper into the mire of our own pride. We cannot ave ourselves, and certainly not by freeing ourselves first.
The prodigal son came back to be a servant in his fathers house. The apostles made themselves servants. Even Jesus was one who came to serve. Jesus did not come to curse the system of men. Such systems are their own curse. Jesus came that we might be saved because He cared. If we are to come in His Name we must come together with that same purpose and care for others.
We need to think differently and follow The Way of Christ. That means you have to care about the liberty of others as much if not more than your own. You cannot do that without gathering together in daily sacrifice and communion which is the Eucharist of Christ and the Corban of righteousness.
Brother Gregory
Marriage Vows
Traditional vows include the promise before God and witnessed by the community that the bride and groom mutually and respectively promise to love, honor and obey and in exchange promise you love, honor and cherish until there union ends in the death of one of the parties.
Solemnization of Matrimony
Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today in the sight of God and in the face of this company, to bear witness to the solemn vows of Holy Matrimony.
The joining of two souls in Holy Wedlock is not to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly; but reverently, discreetly, soberly, and with respect of God.
Today
- This Man, ____________________________________[Groom],
- This Woman ____________________________________[Bride], come before us to be joined in this holy estate.
If any one can show just cause, why they may not lawfully be joined together, let him now speak, or for ever hold his peace.
The Terms
We begin by asking the parties to this union if they do agree to the terms of this sacred union.
[To the Groom]
- Do you, _____________________________________________ , come to this union freely and soberly, desiring to take the responsibilities of Husband and Father?
[To the Bride]
- Do you, ___________________________________________ , come to this union freely and soberly, desiring to take the responsibilities of Wife and Mother?
[Who gives this Woman] Who gives this Woman to be married to this Man?
Join hands
-Please join hands
To Groom -Do you, _______________________ , promise to love, honor, comfort, and cherish [____________________Bride], for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, will you remain ‘only unto her for as long as you both shall live? ….
To Bride -Do you, _______________________, promise to love, honor, comfort, and obey [ _______________________Groom] for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, will you remain only unto him for as long as you both shall live? ....
The Rings
The rings are exchanged to represent the mutual trusting in substance and truth of the these two people before both God and man.
Solemnization
With these word they do solemnize this Natural and Sacred union.
Repeat after me:
“I, [ Groom], with the giving of this ring and before these witness do solemnly wed you [The Bride ].”
“I, [ Bride], with the giving of this ring and before these witness do solemnly wed you [The Groom ] .
Announcing
As these two souls have, this day, consented together in solemn vows holy wedlock, before God and this good company, and have solemnly pledged your lives, to each other before witnesses as man and woman;
I now pronounce you Husband and Wife,
In the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The Kiss
You may Kiss the Bride.
Presenting
It is my good pleasure and my duty to present to this gathering and to all the world [Groom] , and [Bride], as Husband and Wife.
Bible marriage quotes
Ge 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. • Jud 14:2 And he .. told his father and his mother, ... get her for me to wife. • “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” Mark 10:7-9 [• Mt 19:5] • 1 Cor. 7:2 ... let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. • Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law. • • Eph 5:22 33 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, • 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with your wives according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the gentler vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. • 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
A marriage through Holy Matrimony is a vow before God so it is both spiritual and it is about free will self-determination marked in a moment of time where the self is bound to another.
Any voluntary decision establishes personal responsibility for your choice which may be done before witnesses.
Marriage is a commitment like life itself. You may wish an outcome but that has little to do with the vow. The vow is putting another's true needs before your own.
Their true needs are what God says those needs are. Marriage is about service to God more than service merely to your spouse. Therefore it is about service to others. Obviously that service would be to children or the needy not merely for your family but for all the world.
COMMON LAW
Common Law marriage is said to be an informal marriage and is where two partners enter into a valid marital relationship without a marriage license, legal marriage ceremony, or a marriage certificate as issued by the State.
A fundamental foundation of a common-law marriage includes mutual consent in the form of an a agreement of the parties to be spouses, with an open and mutual assumption of a public marital status and relationship.
There is a "natural right" to marry as a "Husband and Wife" that belongs to everone which "are not connected with the organization or the administration of government."[4]
In the great domestic relationship of Husband and Wife, the Natural Law and its Creator provide a Father and Mother to have and to hold dominion and custody of their children and heirs. The family was God’s sanctioned government. <bl “The family is also the first government in the life of the child, with the father as the God-ordained head of the household and his government under God as the child’s basic government.”[5]
Holy Matrimony is solemnized before witnesses, may provide a certificate, through lawful rituals and ceremonies.
A "marriage contract" would be in order to establish the terms of the union. A state licensed marriage has terms specified by statutes, often in equity, and remedied in the courts of the State.
A marriage contract would name the remedies, principles and precepts, and also stipulate specific term for the union and may glean aspects of those terms to which the partners may agree to as Husband and Wife from both the precepts of Canon law and Common Law or other sources the parties deem appropriate.
A sample contract
Whereas, it is written, “Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” Matthew 19:6. "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery." Luke 16:18
- As one Man and one Women united as a sacred institution of God from the beginning
- Divorce is not to be sought by either party without appropriate marriage counseling before one or more minister of the Church for no less than one year and only by mutual consent.
- Whereas, “The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.” 1 Corinthians 7:4
- Medical power of attorney is granted to our spouse in the event of incapacitation.
Etc, Solemnization of Matrimony Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today in the sight of God and in the face of this company, to bear witness to the solemn vows of Holy Matrimony. The joining of two souls in Holy Wedlock is not to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly; but reverently, discreetly, soberly, and with respect of God. [Groom] This Man, , [Bride] This Woman, do come to be joined in this holy estate.
If any one can show just cause, why they may not lawfully be joined together, let him now speak, or for ever hold his peace.
[To the Groom] Do you, , come to this union freely and soberly, desiring to take the responsibilities of Husband and Father?
[To the Bride] Do you, , come to this union freely and soberly, desiring to take the responsibilities of Wife and Mother? [Who gives this Woman] Who gives this Woman to be married to this Man?
---Please join hands--- -Do you, , promise to love, honor, comfort, and cherish [ Bride], for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, will you remain ‘only unto her for as long as you both shall live? ….
-Do you, promise to love, honor, comfort, and obey [ Groom] for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, will you remain only unto him for as long as you both shall live? ....
The RINGS Repeat after me
“I, [ Groom], with the giving of this ring and before these witness do solemnly wed you [The Bride ].”
“I, [ Bride], with the giving of this ring and before these witness do solemnly wed you [The Groom ] .
Announcing the Solemnization
As these two souls have, this day, consented together in solemn vows holy wedlock, before God and this good company, and have solemnly pledged your lives, to each other before witnesses as man and woman;
I now pronounce you Husband and Wife,
In the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
It is my good pleasure and duty do present to this gathering and to all the world [Groom] , and [Bride], as Husband and Wife.
Ge 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. • Jud 14:2 And he .. told his father and his mother, ... get her for me to wife. • “For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” Mark 10:7-9 [• Mt 19:5] • 1 Cor. 7:2 ... let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. • Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law. • • Eph 5:22 33 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, • 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with your wives according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the gentler vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. • 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
If you need help:
- Or want to help others:
Join The Living Network of The Companies of Ten
The Living Network |
Join Local group |
About |
Purpose |
Guidelines |
Network Removal
Contact Minister |
Fractal Network |
Audacity of Hope |
Network Links
Footnotes
- ↑ Is the Bible about religion which it seldom mentions only once in a good way as Pure Religion or is it about governments and law including Natural Law? "This Bible is for the Government of the People, by the People, and for the People." is attributed to the General Prologue to the John Wycliffe Bible translation of 1384, as Lincoln quoted at Gettysburg.
- ↑ Love God and neighbor
- Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:... 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
- Matthew 19:17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
- John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
- John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
- John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love."
- Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:...49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
- Luke 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].
- John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
- Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
- James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
- James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
- James 3:13 Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
- Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
- Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
- ↑ Destroyers of liberty
- "That the man who first ruined the Roman people twas he who first gave them treats and gratuities. But this mischief crept secretly and gradually in, and did not openly make it's appearance in Rome for a considerable time." Plutarch's Life of Coriolanus (c. 100 AD.) This would include Julius Caesar and eventually Augustus Caesar which is why Plutarch also reported, “The real destroyers of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations, and benefits.” This was a major theme of the Bible:
- There were tables of welfare which were both snares and a traps as David and Paul stated and Peter warned would make us merchandise and curse children. Proverbs 23 told us not to not eat the "dainties" offered at those tables of Rulers and Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10 we cannot eat of those tables and the table of the Lord. We are not to consent to their covetous systems of One purse or Corban which makes the word of God to none effect.
- We know when the masses become accustomed to those benefits of legal charity which are the rewards of unrighteousness provided by benefactors who exercise authority and the Fathers of the earth through the covetous practices that makes men merchandise and curse children as a surety for debt.
- ↑ Right, “Civil rights are such as belong to every citizen of the state or country, or, in a wider sense to all its inhabitants, and are not connected with the organization or the administration of government. They include the rights of property, marriage, protection by laws, freedom of contract, trial by jury, etc.” See Citizen. Reference, Right. In Constitutional Law. Black’s 3rd p. 1559.
- ↑ Law & Liberty by Rushdoony Pg. 78-80.
About the author
Subscribe
HELP US at His Holy Church spread the word by SUBSCRIBING to many of our CHANNELS and the Network.
The more subscribers will give us more opportunity to reach out to others and build the network as Christ commanded.
Join the network.
Most important is to become a part of the Living Network which is not dependent upon the internet but seeks to form The bands of a free society.
You can do this by joining the local email group on the network and helping one another in a network of Tens.
His Holy Church - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/hisholychurch
Bitchute channel will often include material that would be censored.
https://www.bitchute.com/channel/o6xa17ZTh2KG/
Rumble Channel gregory144
https://rumble.com/user/gregory144
To read more go to "His Holy Church" (HHC) https://www.hisholychurch.org/
Brother Gregory in the wilderness.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJSw6O7_-vA4dweVpMPEXRA
About the author, Brother Gregory
https://hisholychurch.org/author.php
PreparingU - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hTUK8R89ElcXVgUjWoOXQ
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/HisHolyChurch