Talk:Socialism: Difference between revisions

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: "...Certainly a reliable source operating on fair definitions."''
: "...Certainly a reliable source operating on fair definitions."''


I did not remember ever seeing that definition before and do not think it reliable at all. Evidently he got it from a page I wrote some time ago.
I did not remember ever seeing that definition before, and I do not think it reliable at all. Evidently he got it from a page I wrote some time ago.


http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Socialist
http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Socialist


But the page was quoting the opinion of those who were called [[Human Being]]s which was defined by the Ballentine's Law Dictionary, 1948 Edition. as 'A human-being by birth, but in some part resembling a lower animal.'
But the page was quoting the opinion of those who were called [[Human Being]]s, which was defined by the Ballentine's Law Dictionary, 1948 Edition. as 'A human-being by birth, but in some part resembling a lower animal.'


The very next paragraph says "This belief [of "human beings"] is motivated by the individuals own selfishness, sloth, envy and jealousy." So it is clear that the author does not agree with the definition.
The very next paragraph says "This belief [of "human beings"] is motivated by the individuals own selfishness, sloth, envy and jealousy." So it is clear that the author does not agree with the definition.
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: "A human being who believes that the most harmonious state of affairs would be for all to get a fair shot at financial sucess. This belief is not motivated by his own selfishness as a capitalist would have you think, but is in actuality an honorable difference of opinion." The [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=urban+dictionary Urban dictionary]
: "A human being who believes that the most harmonious state of affairs would be for all to get a fair shot at financial sucess. This belief is not motivated by his own selfishness as a capitalist would have you think, but is in actuality an honorable difference of opinion." The [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=urban+dictionary Urban dictionary]


So that is not very reliable either if for no other reason that they were unable to spell "success" correctly and the Urban Dictionaries own definition of themselves.<Ref>"A place formerly used to find out about slang, and now a place that teens with no life use as a burn book to whine about celebrities, their friends, etc., let out their sexual frustrations, show off their racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-(insert religion here) opinions, troll, and babble about things they know nothing about."</Ref> Urban Dictionary may have been the original source of the [[Human Being]] definition.
So that is not very reliable either, if for no other reason that they were unable to spell "success" correctly and because of the Urban Dictionary's own definition of themselves.<Ref>"A place formerly used to find out about slang, and now a place that teens with no life use as a burn book to whine about celebrities, their friends, etc., let out their sexual frustrations, show off their racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-(insert religion here) opinions, troll, and babble about things they know nothing about."</Ref> Urban Dictionary may have been the original source of the [[Human Being]] definition.


A standard definition of [[Socialism]], which is found at the first paragraph of the same [http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Socialist Socialist page], is a noun defined as a "political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
A standard definition of [[Socialism]], which is found at the first paragraph of the same [http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Socialist Socialist page], is a noun defined as a "political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."


{{#ev:youtube|vjH4QBSwWlg|300|right|Milton Friedman - Donahue interview clip where Donahue speaks of [[Capitalism]] dose not "reward virtue" while the modern [[Socialism]] forbids the reward of [[Social Virtues|virtue]]. 2:30 minutes}}
{{#ev:youtube|vjH4QBSwWlg|300|right|Milton Friedman - Donahue interview clip where Donahue speaks of [[Capitalism]] that does not "reward virtue", while the modern [[Socialism]] forbids the reward of [[Social Virtues|virtue]]. 2:30 minutes}}


While a standard definition of "'''Capitalism''' is an economic system in which capital assets are privately owned and goods and services are produced for profit in a market economy." <Ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism</Ref>
While a standard definition of "'''Capitalism''' is an economic system in which capital assets are privately owned and goods and services are produced for profit in a market economy." <Ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism</Ref>


There is no mention of ''greed'' in this definition of [[Capitalism]] although the choice to be greedy remains intact along with the choice to be charitable. When a man plants a potato to obtain seven more we do not call it greed. When an individual plants an apple orchard to obtain more apples than he can eat we do not call it greed but we may call it capitalism. If everyone who did not plant, fertilize, prune, water and cultivate the orchard wants even one of his apples without asking him that would be [[covet]]ing the goods he produced.
There is no mention of ''greed'' in this definition of [[Capitalism]], although the choice to be greedy remains intact along with the choice to be charitable. When a man plants a potato to obtain seven more, we do not call it greed. When an individual plants an apple orchard to obtain more apples than he can eat, we do not call it greed, but we may call it capitalism. If everyone who did not plant, fertilize, prune, water and cultivate the orchard wants even one of his apples without asking him, that would be [[covet]]ing the goods he produced.


The first capital of mankind is the labor of a man and without it all other capital is meaningless.<Ref>Understanding “American labor, which is the capital of our workingmen.” Grover Cleveland Annual Message Dec., 1885. we should take a look at our own part in the covetous events of 1933.</Ref>   
The first capital of mankind is the labor of a man, and without it all other capital is meaningless.<Ref>Understanding “American labor, which is the capital of our workingmen.” Grover Cleveland Annual Message Dec., 1885. we should take a look at our own part in the covetous events of 1933.</Ref>   


If you take away or infringe upon the right of a man to redistribute his own labor you have taken away the life of a man. As brothers in humanity we should share what we produce with others in need but as free souls under God we should have an exclusive right to make that choice. Socialism in all forms must take away that right.<Ref>Occupying the Chessboard of the Dialectic<Br>
If you take away or infringe upon the right of a man to redistribute his own labor, you have taken away the life of a man. As brothers in humanity we should share what we produce with others in need, but as free souls under God we should have an exclusive right to make that choice. Socialism in all forms must take away that right.<Ref>Occupying the Chessboard of the Dialectic<Br>
http://www.hisholychurch.org/news/articles/dialectic.php </Ref> Americans have become socialists a long time ago and that is why we are failing as a nation. To desire the benefits of a socialist state is to covet, and to consume those benefits is to [[Biting one another|bite our neighbor]].
http://www.hisholychurch.org/news/articles/dialectic.php </Ref> Americans have become socialists a long time ago, and that is why we are failing as a nation. To desire the benefits of a socialist state is to covet, and to consume those benefits is to [[Biting one another|bite our neighbor]].


Any : “Redistribution is immoral... it allows one person to treat another as no more than a means...”<Ref>The Kantian ethic of capitalism. Harold B. Jones, Jr. </Ref> The [[Welfare|welfare]] state is the enemy of [[Pure Religion|pure religion]].<Ref>State [[Welfare]] Spending and Religiosity, A Cross National Analysis by Anthony Gill and Erik Lundsgaarde </Ref>When [[Pure Religion|pure religion]] diminishes, socialism flourishes.  
Any : “Redistribution is immoral... it allows one person to treat another as no more than a means...”<Ref>The Kantian ethic of capitalism. Harold B. Jones, Jr. </Ref> The [[Welfare|welfare]] state is the enemy of [[Pure Religion|pure religion]].<Ref>State [[Welfare]] Spending and Religiosity, A Cross National Analysis by Anthony Gill and Erik Lundsgaarde </Ref>When [[Pure Religion|pure religion]] diminishes, socialism flourishes.  
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: “[[Socialism]] is the [[Religion|religion]] people get when they lose their [[Pure Religion|religion]]”<Ref>Richard John Neuhaus, 1936 – 2009, prominent American clergyman.  </Ref>
: “[[Socialism]] is the [[Religion|religion]] people get when they lose their [[Pure Religion|religion]]”<Ref>Richard John Neuhaus, 1936 – 2009, prominent American clergyman.  </Ref>


[[Was Jesus a socialist|Jesus was not a socialist]]. He certainly wanted us to [[Religion|care for the needy]] in a way that strengthened them and not like [[Sin of Sodom|Sodom and Gommorah]] or [[Nimrod]] and [[Mystery Babylon]] but he also did not want us to [[covet]] our neighbor's goods.  
[[Was Jesus a socialist|Jesus was not a socialist]]. He certainly wanted us to [[Religion|care for the needy]] in a way that strengthened them, and not like [[Sin of Sodom|Sodom and Gommorah]] or [[Nimrod]] and [[Mystery Babylon]], but he also did not want us to [[covet]] our neighbor's goods.  


If we are to be free souls under God instead of slaves we must grant that right to other men and women as well. It does not say thou shalt not [[covet]] unless he is rich.  
If we are to be free souls under God, instead of slaves, we must grant that right to other men and women as well. It does not say thou shalt not [[covet]] unless he is rich.  


I think most [[Modern Christians]] have little knowledge of what the early Church was doing and we have to believe they had a better understanding of what "God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit's plan of redemption looks like". They took care of all social [[welfare]] through [[faith]], [[hope]] and [[charity]] and the [[perfect law of liberty]].  
I think most [[Modern Christians]] have little knowledge of what the early Church was doing, and we have to believe they had a better understanding of what "God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit's plan of redemption looks like". They took care of all social [[welfare]] through [[faith]], [[hope]] and [[charity]] and the [[perfect law of liberty]].  


[[Christian conflict|Early Christians]] would not apply or pray to [[Benefactors|government authorities]] for the [[Bread and circuses|free bread]] and [[benefits]] of [[Herod]] or [[Rome]]. By their fruits you will know them.
[[Christian conflict|Early Christians]] would not apply or pray to [[Benefactors|government authorities]] for the [[Bread and circuses|free bread]] and [[benefits]] of [[Herod]] or [[Rome]]. By their fruits you will know them.


[[Christian conflict|Early Christians]] practiced [[Pure Religion]], not [[Public religion]] and its [[Covetous Practices]] which is a [[snare]] that makes men [[Merchandise]] and a [[surety]] for debt.
[[Christian conflict|Early Christians]] practiced [[Pure Religion]], not [[Public religion]] and its [[Covetous Practices]], which is a [[snare]] that makes men [[Merchandise]] and a [[surety]] for debt.


It is time to [[repent]] and seek the [[Kingdom of God]] and His righteousness.
It is time to [[repent]] and seek the [[Kingdom of God]] and His righteousness.

Revision as of 08:08, 12 September 2016

Someone on what claims to be a Christian Anarchist group stated:

"A human being who is a socialist believes that the most harmonious state of affairs would be for all to get security and the fruits of success even at the expense of others who have already achieved some financial success."
"...Certainly a reliable source operating on fair definitions."

I did not remember ever seeing that definition before, and I do not think it reliable at all. Evidently he got it from a page I wrote some time ago.

http://www.preparingyou.com/wiki/Socialist

But the page was quoting the opinion of those who were called Human Beings, which was defined by the Ballentine's Law Dictionary, 1948 Edition. as 'A human-being by birth, but in some part resembling a lower animal.'

The very next paragraph says "This belief [of "human beings"] is motivated by the individuals own selfishness, sloth, envy and jealousy." So it is clear that the author does not agree with the definition.

I did find the definition:

"A human being who believes that the most harmonious state of affairs would be for all to get a fair shot at financial sucess. This belief is not motivated by his own selfishness as a capitalist would have you think, but is in actuality an honorable difference of opinion." The Urban dictionary

So that is not very reliable either, if for no other reason that they were unable to spell "success" correctly and because of the Urban Dictionary's own definition of themselves.[1] Urban Dictionary may have been the original source of the Human Being definition.

A standard definition of Socialism, which is found at the first paragraph of the same Socialist page, is a noun defined as a "political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Load video
YouTube
Milton Friedman - Donahue interview clip where Donahue speaks of Capitalism that does not "reward virtue", while the modern Socialism forbids the reward of virtue. 2:30 minutes

While a standard definition of "Capitalism is an economic system in which capital assets are privately owned and goods and services are produced for profit in a market economy." [2]

There is no mention of greed in this definition of Capitalism, although the choice to be greedy remains intact along with the choice to be charitable. When a man plants a potato to obtain seven more, we do not call it greed. When an individual plants an apple orchard to obtain more apples than he can eat, we do not call it greed, but we may call it capitalism. If everyone who did not plant, fertilize, prune, water and cultivate the orchard wants even one of his apples without asking him, that would be coveting the goods he produced.

The first capital of mankind is the labor of a man, and without it all other capital is meaningless.[3]

If you take away or infringe upon the right of a man to redistribute his own labor, you have taken away the life of a man. As brothers in humanity we should share what we produce with others in need, but as free souls under God we should have an exclusive right to make that choice. Socialism in all forms must take away that right.[4] Americans have become socialists a long time ago, and that is why we are failing as a nation. To desire the benefits of a socialist state is to covet, and to consume those benefits is to bite our neighbor.

Any : “Redistribution is immoral... it allows one person to treat another as no more than a means...”[5] The welfare state is the enemy of pure religion.[6]When pure religion diminishes, socialism flourishes.

“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion”[7]

Jesus was not a socialist. He certainly wanted us to care for the needy in a way that strengthened them, and not like Sodom and Gommorah or Nimrod and Mystery Babylon, but he also did not want us to covet our neighbor's goods.

If we are to be free souls under God, instead of slaves, we must grant that right to other men and women as well. It does not say thou shalt not covet unless he is rich.

I think most Modern Christians have little knowledge of what the early Church was doing, and we have to believe they had a better understanding of what "God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit's plan of redemption looks like". They took care of all social welfare through faith, hope and charity and the perfect law of liberty.

Early Christians would not apply or pray to government authorities for the free bread and benefits of Herod or Rome. By their fruits you will know them.

Early Christians practiced Pure Religion, not Public religion and its Covetous Practices, which is a snare that makes men Merchandise and a surety for debt.

It is time to repent and seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.

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Footnotes

  1. ↑ "A place formerly used to find out about slang, and now a place that teens with no life use as a burn book to whine about celebrities, their friends, etc., let out their sexual frustrations, show off their racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-(insert religion here) opinions, troll, and babble about things they know nothing about."
  2. ↑ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
  3. ↑ Understanding “American labor, which is the capital of our workingmen.” Grover Cleveland Annual Message Dec., 1885. we should take a look at our own part in the covetous events of 1933.
  4. ↑ Occupying the Chessboard of the Dialectic
    http://www.hisholychurch.org/news/articles/dialectic.php
  5. ↑ The Kantian ethic of capitalism. Harold B. Jones, Jr.
  6. ↑ State Welfare Spending and Religiosity, A Cross National Analysis by Anthony Gill and Erik Lundsgaarde
  7. ↑ Richard John Neuhaus, 1936 – 2009, prominent American clergyman.


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