Ben Angel

Socialism is far better than capitalism

Ben Angel Real Christians do not depend upon systems of social welfare that force the contributions of the people. But the only way out of poverty is to strengthen the poor. This can only be done through a combination of the individual choices of Capitalism and charity. Socialist the welfare programs of modern State robs the choices of individuals that normally nurtures the soul of society and degenerates it's members weakening the poor financially and the character of the rich. It divides society. Forced redistribution of wealth nurtures tyranny. https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Socialism

Ben Angel Almost every major problem with modern capitalism stems from the introduction of socialism which takes away individual choice or liberty and centralizes the power of choice encouraging "despotism" in leaders. Subsidizing the selfish excess of wealthy capitalists with socialist programs through covetous practices undermines the economy until it is no longer real capitalism. https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Capitalism

Gregory Williams and Rafi. You miss some important points. The global capitalists are the ones running the show. Ok, there is Trump who believes in protectionist capitalism, thar is to say protect USA capitalists.

  Capitalism is a system where the vast majority do the very hard work and a few ger to keep all the profits. I know in theory we can go and start a business and be one of those 20% who succeed, 
   I'm talking about the global capitalists and those at home who lobby the governments, avoid paying taxes - meaning we pay their share, gain tax cuts, gain government subsidies, bailouts and with all the money they save lend it to the government with interest.
   Giant profits for weapons manufacturers and oil producers is also a byproduct of capitalism. Global capitalism is a new form of imperialism. 
A lot of money has been spent to destroy the socialist movement both by the global capitalists and by the CIA (Cold war.) All sorts of false socialists have been used including democrats, in England New Labour, and even more extreme Adolf Hitler and Mussolini. 
  Without genuine socialists there would be no workers rights, no minimum wage and people who lost their job would be on the scrap heap. Health care would not available to everyone.

BA The problem IS the capitalist system, social democracy is just capitalism with a band aid. Capitalism cannot work in a modern society, when it requires that everything is driven for profit. As well as the corruption this can cause. A lot of necessary services can only survive with massive taxes. Perhaps a bonus points system. If 100 of us decide to go and build a railway to ease traffic and the environment, the government will say there is no money. However they could issue bonus points which do not require taxing. It is not profit driven. It is simply a reward for in exchange for something productive.

Ben Angel Did you read the article or fail to understand the meaning of it? It is better read online. The United States has been becoming less and less capitalist to the point where there is little left but pseudo capitalism in America.

First, there is a serious lack of real capital since the creation of the Federal Reserve by socialists and communists like Edward Mandell House.

With the loss of just weights and measures the potential of true capitalism is lost. The pervasiveness of a mere legal title through the discharge of debt with notes capitalism is further undermined. But when the masses develop an appetite for benefits through the covetous practices of the socialist system of social welfare through exercising authority of the State the people have lost the moral compass required for the pure application of true capitalism through the "perfect law of liberty". https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Capitalism#A_bad_rap

B Angel replied Mao certainly wanted to created a socialist system,, but both Russia and China suffered from 90% poverty rates when they took over. Not only did it make it extremely hard to fund but they were being sabotaged by the USA and the European imperialists.

Ben Angel Mao and Lenin and Stalin were tyrants at heart and those nations were morally bankrupt because the people already turned a blind eye to the immorality of Marxism and socialism as covetous practices. https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Covetous_practices

Ben Angel When the masses are immorally willing to take from others by force the social benefits from the labor and property of others they will not only degenerate they will give rise to tyrants. No rule making nor Constitution will protect them . https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Masses

The "global capitalists" are all socialists like Edward Mandell House. https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Edward_Mandell_House

George Soros also advocates socialism. "I think there's a lot of merit in an international economy and global markets, but they're not sufficient because markets don't look after social needs. Markets are designed to allow individuals to look after their private needs and to pursue profit. It's really a great invention and I wouldn't under-estimate the value of that, but they're not designed to take care of social needs."

The present pseudo capitalist "markets don't look after social needs" because of Marxist and socialists like George Soros

They know the precepts of socialism "degenerate" the electorate which openly allows for "those at home who lobby the governments, avoid paying taxes." https://preparingyou.com/wiki/George_Soros

BA I DO NOT trust George Soros. Capitalists lobby governments not socialists. Only a very small percentage of the population are in a position to pursue profits. Ben Angel There is just as much lobbying in socialist nations. They just do not have register. Like I said the Federal Reserve was started by socialists and Marxist who were also Bankers. Despotism 101 is first get the people addicted to government benefits which is why he said “The real destroyers of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations, and benefits.” Plutarch

He even explained the it was the socialist policies of Caesar that ruined Rome. "That the man who first ruined the Roman people twas he who first gave them treats and gratuities. But this mischief crept secretly and gradually in, and did not openly make it's appearance in Rome for a considerable time." Plutarch's Life of Coriolanus (c. 100 AD.)

This is of course why Jesus said that the people were not to be socialists but to live by charity not force like the socialists do. You can do that with true capitalism because capitalism is not a political system. "Capitalism is merely an economic system based on private ownership, control, and operation of the means of production and their beneficial use." No one today owns the "beneficial use" of their labor which is why they have to pay tribute and have gone back into the bondage of Egypt. Socialism is the same as the Corban of the Pharisees that makes the word of God to none effect. Christ had the answer. https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Corban

Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst. 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

BA I am really hoping BRICS will succeed and the dollar as reserve currency will be ended. No country should dominate others. First it will hopefully mean closing down the 800 plus military bases. Though countries now have to pay America for these plus sign a treaty saying American foreign policy will take precedence. Scary stuff.

  A weaker dollar will make it harder for USA,to impose its ideology on the rest of the world. 
  My own prediction is that when USA falls, the global south will rise.

BA I only hope it is the people orientated governments that gain power, and not capitalist orientated governments. That is to say not those that make capitalist rights more important than human rights.

Ben Angel the most fundamental Right of mankind is to own his labor and what he produce with his labor. Capitalism says that is right and true.

Under socialism that is never true. Under socialism some one can and will take away something produced by someone else and redistribute it to whom they think should have it.

Under capitalism you can redistribute wealth too.

That is done through fervent charity. But charity is choice.

All capitalism consists of is , "Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production" It is not political, nor corporate.

So, is it bad that people own their labor, and what they produce with it? So, you are against that?

Under socialism your labor and your property does not belong to you but to the collective. You think the collective will protect you but it will not. It will bite and devour you.

Socialism does not function with the charity of love but it operates ultimately by force through "legal charity". https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Legal_charity

(BA)from Ben Angel The wealthiest CRAPitalists will tell you that tax is theft. In reality they know that it is them who have control over the democratic system and in the real world they are the ones getting away with paying taxes. When they pass these down to the rest of us, they know we have little chance of avoiding these.

 People don't generally become billionaires without being extremely ruthless and very devious.

Gregory to Ben

Rather than converse in a rational way you just pretend to know the definition of words. When called out rather than admit the fallacy of your position you make up words like CRAPitalists. 

The reason men "have control over the democratic system" the people are slothful in what the should be doing. The people are to ignorant and weak to fix the problems of the world and that is the problem. The people have gone the socialist way of Nimrod and Sodom.

"People don't generally become" a nation of slaves bound under tribute and taxation unless through the covetous practices of socialist programs they tried to enslave their neighbor because of their appetite for benefits at the expense of their neighbor.

Is Taxation theft
or
Is Taxation justice,
When you have not been just?
Those slothful in justice and mercy should be under tribute.

The truth is that people sealed their fate when they decide to obtain benefits at the expense of your neighbor by applying to men who call themselves benefactors but "exercise authority one over the other" for their free bread at the tables of the State.
From public schools to Social Security people sold themselves slaves, made themselves "merchandise" and "cursed their own children" through "covetous practices" which is a snare.
There is a solution but you would have to be willing "to think a different way" and seek a "different form of government" without being slothful in righteousness.

How are roads, sewers, electric, water systems, and military protection paid for? In a pure republic they can be provided for by voluntary associations, cooperatives and occasionally commercial enterprises. Early public schools and roads were often built by the militia and privately funded through charity.
Inflation is the ultimate taxation that begins when you bite your neighbor to get free stuff but ends with you being devoured.
When asked what to do to fix the tax code my reply was address the most amoral elements of modern government:
End income tax on labor because that is a corvee system of bondage that "muzzles the ox" and enslaves mankind, end inheritance tax on families because it robs widows and orphans, but also end all legal charity by state taxation because it is a covetous practices that makes you merchandise and will destroy families, curse children of the '"masses" making the people perfect savages, and finally bringing in tyranny again.

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Taxation