Talk:Already saved

saved http://preparingyou.com/wiki/Saved SEE http://preparingyou.com/wiki/Template:Howdoyouknow

== How do we know we are saved ==

We may agree that we are not saved by our own works or the works of the law because there is nothing we can do where God would owe us His salvation. We should also know that standing fast in spirit of Christ is not compatible with the spirit of sloth but we are told to strive, and not have the spirit of wantonness and covetousness. But we should seek the spirit of charity and love. We are warned by the New Testament not to be deceived into thinking that we do not have to be righteous or do righteously in our lives. It is therefore clearly seen that if we are sinning we are not of Christ. If our policy in this life is a sin or given to sin then we are not of Christ nor do we truly believe in Him. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:7 Just as you cannot save yourself by works you also cannot save yourself by saying certain words or convincing yourself you think something is true. Are we saved by the testimony of our own mouths? What would be the evidence that we are deceived about our faith? We should be careful not to err is a gift from above from the Father of lights. It is by His own will that we be his creation. We should be swift to hear and slow to wrath for that we not be the righteousness of God. So we should be setting aside all filthiness and naughtiness so that we may receive with meekness that which is able to save your souls. We are told to be doers of the word for if not we are deceiving our own selves. For if any be a forgetful hearer and not a doer of the work he shall not be blessed. And if not blessed then not saved. While we seek salvation and its blessings we know we error and seek to be converted and even perfected in the truth. "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4 How do we know that we are not the liar John speaks of in his first epistle? James tells us that faith has works and without the evidence of that faith with works we know the claim of faith or belief is not real faith but is actually dead. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:17 He tells you clearly what to look for to determine real faith from those who are lying about their faith to you and even to themselves. "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." James 2:18 He explains to us if we deceive ourselves with claim of belief through false religions that death awaits us because the faith that gives life is actually dead. "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20 He includes the warning that claims to be believe there is one God or that Jesus and God are one is insufficient. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19 One common verse tells us that "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:" But that one verse does not tell us if we are saved but only those who truly believeth that Jesus is the Christ. The Christ was the anointed, the highest son of David the king of the Kingdom of God at hand. Jesus as the Christ and king was telling his disciples and us how we were to act and behave while seeking His kingdom and the righteousness of God. If we truly believe in Jesus as the Christ we will keep his commandments. The celebrity of Christ People are in love with the image of Christ and the belief that they are saved already. The story of Christ makes Jesus the hero of the Gospel and the savior of mankind and people desire to be a part of that Christian story. It gives people a sense of belonging to follow Christ and his what they see as His way. It is very clear that there will be false Christs, images of Christ, Apostles and doctrines claiming to be of Christ but are not. So, to answer the question above "How do we know we believe in the real Jesus with real faith in Him?" We simply have to ask are we keeping the commandments of Jesus? Are we truly seeking, striving, and persevering to follow His teachings or doctrines? It is clear by His own teachings that you can hear with our ears His words and yet still misunderstand the truth of them in our hearts. Luke 8:12 "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. If we are truly Born again of God then we should not see sin and if we see sin that is evidence that we do not yet believe in spirit and truth and have need of repentance. 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." Whoever truly loves Christ Jesus would also love his brother and would not commit acts of unrighteousness against him or His brethren. We know by Christ's own words that what we do to the least of His brethren you do also to Christ, so if you love Christ you will love your His brethren and if you love not His brethren then you love not Christ. So by your love or lack of love you will have evidence if you are saved not saved. Some say there are two ways to know if you are saved. 1. We have placed our hopes for heaven entirely on Jesus according some doctrines quoting John where he says, “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13 2. You have a new nature. Saying that it is your life that best reflects your love for God. But what is that nature and what is the evidence of that nature so that we may know we are seeking true righteousness and doing the Father's will? To say our hope is "entirely" resting on Jesus is a value judgment of the mind. We know we should love the Lord with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. But do we know our own mind? Men are not always in their right Mind? If we are proud or vain we may not be saved in our right minds but only in our imagination saved. Luke 1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. Here we see the Greek word dianoia normally translated mind translated imagination This word mind is also translated from the Greek nous Depending on the mind to know if you are saved is like eating of the tree of knowledge to guide your walk with God. Being saved is just returning to that which we were meant to be. God is spirit and made us in His image. In the beginning there was spirit which shaped all for life. It moved upon the waters and Man is mostly water. God gave us the breath of His life All life and law come from the Spirit. Until the Spirit is saved the body and the soul cannot be saved. Can anyone tell you that you are saved? Does anyone, especially you, have the right to make that judgement? Do we have the ability to make that mental perception with something as fragile as our Mind? What would be the evidence that our minds see clearly the truth of Christ? It is written that we do not know what God hath prepared for them that love him. But God reveals unto us by his Spirit... For what man knoweth except by spirit? For salvation is of God and no man knoweth the things of God except Gods Spirit. We may seek to serve and in the hope of His purging so that His sacrifice be not void in us. Our hope is that His spirit gathers in us that we may be saved. We should not glory in the thought of our salvation for our own pride may leaven our walk. We must allow ourselves to be purged of the leaven of pride. Christ did very little testimony of himself but let his works testify of him. So why do we need to say we are saved? Say rather I seek salvation for that is His first command seek the doing of righteousness in service one to another. Then the Father will breath his life into us again. Our salvation is His spirit in union with our own by our submission to His will. How do we know we believe or anything if we depend upon our minds?

Content of http://preparingyou.com/wiki/Saved

3 Have we confessed our sins 4 What is a saved believer 5 Questions 5.1 Are You Saved 5.2 Are you a Saved Believers

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already saved/delusion Template:Delusion

== How do you know ==

How do we know we are not amongst the deceived? xxxmovedxxx "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20 One of the big challenges we face is recognizing the strong delusion and the lie people believe to be true. People read the Bible with a very limited view of history, language and therefore have very little understanding of what the early Church and Christians were doing and why they were persecuted. Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." They have created doctrines based on this limited understanding of the Bible within the context of history or a twisted view of the meaning of certain words within the text. Instead of Pure Religion they practice False religion. Then seek to find others who will agree with their doctrine. The same could be said of everyone. The question is what is Christ's true doctrines? What did he say and are we doing that first? The Pharisees had the same problem of seeing the true Christ who stood before them and rebuked them for their Corban which was making the word of God to none effect. John 9:39 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." People who create false doctrines often depend heavily on Paul's writings. But Paul preached Christ first. John writes: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have1 an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. "3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." John 2:1 But are Modern Christians doers of His word and the will of the Father or are they more like the Pharisees who studied the Torah but professed a doctrine of their own self-righteousness. "And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." 2 Peter 3:15 The problem with many Paulinist is they do not preach the real Christ and His doctrines first. The modern church goers are not doers of His word but pray to the Fathers of the earth for their benefaction and have been made merchandise and curse children with debt of their own wantonness. We should know this because they keepeth not His commandments but have indulged in covetous practices at the expense of their neighbor and the forfeiture of their own freedom and soul. That means we have to repent and learn to love our neighbor and our enemy and gather with the believers of the true Gospel of the Kingdom. Some think many are not believers because they do not preach things about head covering and wearing long dresses, or calendars and Sabbaths or Hebrew Names. The Pharisees had such traditions and they could not see the real truth of the kingdom at hand nor the weightier matters. Jesus never said anything about head covering for women. He forgave adulterers, He did not unmoor the truth to cling to man made traditions. He went out of his way to talk to a Samaritan women and He showed little or none of the chauvinist approaches so popular among modern Paulinist. We have to seek a kingdom where no one has to pray to benefactors who exercise authority one over the other. Nor the Fathers of the earth. We have to care for one another and strive to become the welfare of the righteous while teaching the unrighteous The Ways of Christ....FIRST. Paul, John and others were writing people who were already doing that and were already cast out of the Corban system of unrighteousness. We should have no denomination or denominator but Christ. 1 John 2:7 "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." The Pharisees followed the letter of laws as they interpreted the Torah. They were wrong and did not know God. They used their holy book to justify themselves but not attend to the weightier matters. Love and charity are important. Loving your neighbor enough to make a difference is important Caring about others in ways that strengthen them is important Setting people free is important. The truth about Christ, and the commandments about covetousness is important. Forgiveness is important We know that the prophecy is that the "whole world" will be deceived by a lie from Revelation 12:9. How do we know that we are not already deceived? We see this Greek word "plane" translated delusion only once. Seven times it is translated error. It is also translated to deceive and deceit once each. So the word may mean delusion in relation to an error related to deception. Are you saved already or deceived already?

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How do we know we are true Christians or actually just deceived Workers of Iniquity? Is there a checklist? People do many things contrary to Christ and the early Church and actually still think they are followers of Christ or even imagine that they know Him like the Pharisees thought they knew Moses. We need to ask lots of questions.

} saved http://preparingyou.com/wiki/Saved SEE http://preparingyou.com/wiki/Template:Howdoyouknow replaced this on delusion == How do you know == The covetous practices of desiring to receive benefits from rulers at the expense of others through the exercising authority of governments or borrowing from future generations to provide those benefits curses your children with debt. This was all forbidden by Christ and warned against by the apostles and prophets. It is not only a violation of God's law against coveting your neighbor's goods it is, according to James and Peter, evidence you do not really believe in Jesus but are workers of iniquity. If you are not seeking the alternative to welfare benefits provided by force which is "pure religion" through the perfect law of liberty in the network of Charity and Love commanded by Christ you are not really a believer in Christ and appear to be under a strong delusion. How do we know we are not amongst the deceived? How do we know that we are not the liar John speaks of in his epistle: "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4 James not only tells us what to look for but what to expect for those who say they have faith but are lying to others about their faith and often to themselves as well. "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." James 2:18 He goes on to warns us if we attempt to deceive ourselves with false religion that death awaits us. We know we are not saved by our own works or even the works of the law but stand fast in one spirit. That is not the spirit of sloth but of striving, and not the spirit of wantonness and covetousness but of charity and love. Just believing there is one God and Jesus is his son is in itself not enough. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19 Just thinking you are saved because you say you believe is not sound doctrine. It is what you do that gives the world evidence of your faith. "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20 One of the big challenges we face is recognizing the strong delusion and the lie people believe to be true. People read the Bible with a very limited view of history, language and therefore have very little understanding of what the early Church and Christians were doing and why they were persecuted. Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." They have created doctrines based on this limited understanding of the Bible within the context of history or a twisted view of the meaning of certain words within the text. Instead of Pure Religion they practice False religion. Then seek to find others who will agree with their doctrine. The same could be said of everyone. The question is what is Christ's true doctrines? What did he say and are we doing that first? The Pharisees had the same problem of seeing the true Christ who stood before them and rebuked them for their Corban which was making the word of God to none effect. John 9:39 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." People who create false doctrines often depend heavily on Paul's writings. But Paul preached Christ first. John writes: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have1 an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. "3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." John 2:1 But are Modern Christians doers of His word and the will of the Father or are they more like the Pharisees who studied the Torah but professed a doctrine of their own self-righteousness. "And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." 2 Peter 3:15 The problem with many Paulinist is they do not preach the real Christ and His doctrines first. The modern church goers are not doers of His word but pray to the Fathers of the earth for their benefaction and have been made merchandise and curse children with debt of their own wantonness. We should know this because they keepeth not His commandments but have indulged in covetous practices at the expense of their neighbor and the forfeiture of their own freedom and soul. That means we have to repent and learn to love our neighbor and our enemy and gather with the believers of the true Gospel of the Kingdom. Some think many are not believers because they do not preach things about head covering and wearing long dresses, or calendars and Sabbaths or Hebrew Names. The Pharisees had such traditions and they could not see the real truth of the kingdom at hand nor the weightier matters. Jesus never said anything about head covering for women. He forgave adulterers, He did not unmoor the truth to cling to man made traditions. He went out of his way to talk to a Samaritan women and He showed little or none of the chauvinist approaches so popular among modern Paulinist. We have to seek a kingdom where no one has to pray to benefactors who exercise authority one over the other. Nor the Fathers of the earth. We have to care for one another and strive to become the welfare of the righteous while teaching the unrighteous The Ways of Christ....FIRST. Paul, John and others were writing people who were already doing that and were already cast out of the Corban system of unrighteousness. We should have no denomination or denominator but Christ. 1 John 2:7 "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." The Pharisees followed the letter of laws as they interpreted the Torah. They were wrong and did not know God. They used their holy book to justify themselves but not attend to the weightier matters. Love and charity are important. Loving your neighbor enough to make a difference is important Caring about others in ways that strengthen them is important Setting people free is important. The truth about Christ, and the commandments about covetousness is important. Forgiveness is important We know that the prophecy is that the "whole world" will be deceived by a lie from Revelation 12:9. How do we know that we are not already deceived? We see this Greek word "plane" translated delusion only once. Seven times it is translated error. It is also translated to deceive and deceit once each. So the word may mean delusion in relation to an error related to deception. Are you saved already or deceived already? "Many" Modern Christians are under a strong delusion because they think it is okay to go to the men who call themselves benefactors and who exercise authority one over the other despite Jesus saying "No! It is not to be that way with you". They pray to the fathers of the earth, biting one another until they have become merchandise through their covetous practices in a daily ministration of Corban that is making the word of God to none effect because it is not based on charity and love but upon force and fear. How do we know we are true Christians or actually just deceived Workers of Iniquity? Is there a checklist? People do many things contrary to Christ and the early Church and actually still think they are followers of Christ or even imagine that they know Him like the Pharisees thought they knew Moses. We need to ask lots of questions. This was on delusion template