Talk:Might be saved

• Benny: There is no doubt Jesus when He came to Israel told the Jews to keep the law. The Kingdom program that is for Israel is for the time being postponed. A new Gospel and a new apostle was given with a message that was a mystery. This message was to Gentiles. All prophecy and the law was given to Israel. But now through the "Fall of Israel salvation has come to the Gentiles.

Observe from the scriptures. The Kingdom Gospel was given by the prophet. The Gospel of the Grace of God was kept secret from the foundation of the World.

Compare: Acts 3:20-22 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath **spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began**. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Who was Peter speaking to?

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, **Ye men of Israel,** why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Paul's Gospel was not spoken by the Prophets but was a mystery that no one knew until the risen, ascended Christ revealed it to Paul.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to **my gospel**, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the **revelation of the mystery, which was kept SECRET since the world began,**

Greg, our posts are crossing. This is my response to the scripture given in your last post.

• Benny: Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

I forgot to add this to my last post... Through their (Israels fall) Salvation has come to the Gentiles.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Salvation was to come to the world through Israel a nation of priests. It was unknown and a mystery that salvation would come to the Gentiles through Israel's fall.

Romans 11:30-32 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Believe Paul's Gospel and be saved.

• Benny: Coveting your neighbors goods is not the Gospel it is a commandment. No Christian promotes sin. A Christian believes his or her sins are paid for... all of them. We trust in Christ that He paid for our sins on the cross and by believing and in trusting in what He did for us we have His righteousness imputed to us.

Galatians 3:2-5 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

• Benny: Saved people know they can't save themselves with a thought or anything else. Saved people believe they are saved by grace through God's gift. Good News!

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

• Gregory Williams:But a Christian is a follower of Christ, He is someone who loves Christ. If you are not doing what he said the evidence shows you do not really love Christ. What many Modern Christians have done is reinvent Christ with their private interpretation of Christ. They reject what he said and imagine that Paul was saying all you have to do is think a thought. They think the word believe has to do with accepting an idea in your head and repeating it over and over. Belief means a conviction that compels actions.

Modern Christians what to believe they trust in Christ but they actually worship the image of Christ they created in their own heads. That way they can be workers of iniquity and actually think they are doing what Christ said and that they love him. This is why in 2 Timothy 3:1 it says This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

If everyone was actually believing in Christ the world would not be in the present state that it is in. May of those saying they are Christians are actually working against the ways of Christ.

This is why most of these Modern Christians have gone astray and returned to the mire and made a mess.. 2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

It is the watered down do nothing gospel of the Modern Christians that excuses covetousness, and sloth and avarice. Those that do believe know they are saved by grace but it is Christ who establishes who believes and who is just saying they believed and he told us what to look for to determining if we are just fooling ourselves.

Again the early Church took care of all the social welfare of the people in free assemblies by charity alone. They had to because when they got Christ's baptism they were kicked out of the social welfare system that was making the word of God to none effect. The modern Christian does not do that any more, they rely on the men who call themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other, taking from your neighbor so you can get your benefits. That was the Corban of the Pharisees. That makes the modern Christian who says he believes a worker of iniquity and not a true believer in the righteousness of God nor a truster in Christ. Just another soul under a strong delusion. 2 hours ago · Like

• Benny: Well, it sounds like you have your work cut out for you.

• Gregory Williams: We are all saved by grace if we will repent and forgive and seek the righteousness of God... Work and life are the same. All that is needed is true repentance and then the work comes naturally because of true faith. You know there is no repentance when the life/work does not match the ways of Christ.

Modern Christians have more in common with the traditions of the Pharisees who forced the contributions of the people who signed up for the temple Corban set up by Herod the Great.

Christ was crucified because he preached against such system and opposed them in his teachings. The true Christians were persecuted because they would not sign up for the Qorban of Rome.

If the Modern Christian truly repented and start loving one another the way the early Christians did it then they would live as Christ said, by faith, hope and charity and the perfect law of liberty. And not be trusting in men who exercise authority to provide them with rewards and benefits.

But they have not repented and their deeds tell us that they care not for the righteous ways of John nor His Baptism, Nor Christ and his kingdom of righteousness.

They and their pastors speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the comfort of their own flesh, through much wantonness of the benefits and gratuities of the world being of the world, All those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

In 2 Peter 2:18 the word error means deceived and delusion, While they promise them liberty from truly living by faith and charity and love of Christ and His ways, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. This is why they are again in bondage because they do not worship him in spirit and in truth but only with their lips ...

For though Christ freed them after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. and again coveted their neighbor's good and become the slothful... so it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire...

They, the modern Christians who do not walk in the ways Christ taught, have their repentance cut out for them..,

• Gregory Williams: I know it is hard to believe so many Churches have missed the simplicity of loving one another rather than asking men who exercise authority to take from their neighbor so that they can have all those free benefits from health care to free education, or some one to take care of our parents so that we are not burdened with that job but after all we were told in 2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. and in 2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away....

• Benny: You can't be saved by Grace (unmerited favor) and do something (work) to be saved at the same time.

Romans 11:5-6 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. **And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace**. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This chart contrasting forgiveness in the past may help to illustrate the point between works and grace.

Source:

• Becky: I know of many churches (or people who make up the church) who DO take care of their neighbors, provide for the lost, help the poor, the elderly, etc. Perhaps we don't hear about it because they choose to do it in secret instead of boasting about it. I don't think we can lump all churches (or people within those churches) together to justify the claim that "Modern Christians" aren't doing what Christ taught. That is pretty judgmental. We don't know the hearts of men or what they do to exercise their faith. Only God can do that. I do agree that society in general today is happier to send money and let someone else do the work. They can feel good about themselves that way and not get involved. Sending money is easy....taking the time and energy to do something for someone is far more of an inconvenience.

• Benny: That God would sacrifice His Son to die in our place is what is hard for our pride to believe. Man wants to believe that if everyone would simply think and do what he or she does the world would become a paradise. That simply isn't the case... all of us including you and I are the problem not the solution.

We have no power to save the world since by man (us) sin is in the world.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that **all have sinned:**...

...Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Our only hope is in Christ's work on our behalf.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have **now received the atonement.**

Praise the Lord! Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself and He will by Himself deliver us from this "present evil world". (Galatians 1:4)

We are saved "for good works" but not by them. The entire point of this thread was to illustrate that all sin is on the same footing as far as eternal life is concerned.

Remember many unsaved people do good works but good works won't saved them. If a person wants to do a pure work after their salvation and "do their best" the best that they can do is preach the Gospel of the grace of God committed to the apostle Paul.

Paul declares:

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

• Benny: Right here in Bend I personally know individuals and entire Christian ministries who spend much of their time and effort doing things for the poor, sick and elderly. They just don't brag about it. These folks are fully aware that their efforts won't get them into heaven. They do it because they love Jesus Christ and want to help others. There are Christian missionaries all over the world who are tortured and murdered for their faith and for preaching the Gospel. This is off topic but because Christians are being maligned in this thread I thought I would defend my brothers and sisters in Christ who visit nursing homes, hospitals, families and give comfort and hope to those they help. Enough said.

• Becky: I agree with you, and it is not off topic Benny. The Good News of Jesus Christ stands as a whole...and "faith without works is dead". There are so many believers out there giving their all to spread the news of salvation. Just because they belong (or attend) an organized body of believers does not negate what they do. Some people give money because they are aware of their limitations. Everyone receives different gifts and have a purpose in this life. We need to exercise these gifts as the body of Christ. The money given is to aid in the spreading of the gospel, helping missionaries around the world...even in America. Some people don't deal well with organization or authority. The truth is... If God wasn't organized, we flat out would not be here. If we were not under His authority we would not accomplish anything of consequence. All scripture is for our instruction and it all intertwines. We can't use certain scripture to further OUR agenda....well, I guess we can, but it is fruitless and futile. The Good news is God's Word does not return void. Keep up the good work!!

Christians do it all

• Gregory Williams: That is good these modern churches help the poor and do so with free will offerings but that is not what the early Church did. They did "all" social welfare for the congregants who believed in the gospel of Christ. The sought no public charity because that was prohibited by Christ and it was not real charity. Any time a contribution was forced by some one who could exercise authority Christians refused the benefit. This is why they were persecuted and killed.

Taking care of all the needy of the followers o Christ with nothing but free will offerings was part of the job description of the early Church ministers who were appointed the kingdom. That is what James called "pure religion". Religion was how you took care of the needy of your society. In the last two hundred years people have redefined religion. The definition of the word religion has changed in the minds of modern society since the Constitution.

Today, religion is defined as “a set of beliefs.” whereas a hundred years ago it was defined as an “outward act”. According to John Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary which was adapted to the Constitution of the United States, religion “in practice” consists of “the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men.” The modern Church says there is nothing you have to do but just have a set of beliefs but religion at the time of Christ meant how you performed that duty to take care of the needy of your society. The Pharisees took care of them with a system of Corban that was forced if you signed up for it with the baptism of Herod but if you got the baptism of John and the Apostles who did it by sharing in charity and love. If you got that baptism of Christ you were cast out of the welfare system run through the temple built by Herod. We know this by John 9:22. Remember the temple was a government building in Judea. Herod got the funds to build it by his new deal social welfare system that forced the offerings of the people.

Those types of systems have come and gone over the centuries but were condemned by God and the prophets because they are covetous and not based on charity which is also translated love.

You see according to James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world."

The word world there is one of 5 different words translated world in the new testament. That word was defined " 1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government ". You see in order to practice pure faith and pure religion you need seek to not take any benefits from men who call themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other because if you do then your religion is "spotted" which is from a word meaning defiled. This is where the modern Church has lost its way and departed from the ways of Christ. Just 200 years ago in America the church was the entire social welfare of the people but today it will show a "form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" to take care of all the welfare of the people and we are told: "from such turn away."

You see what has happened is there is 'false prophets also among the people, even as there are false teachers among you, who privily have brought in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.' And 2 Peter 2:2 goes on to say "And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."

You see Americans have become merchandise, human resources, surety for debt just like the Jews at the time of Herod and Rome but Christ set them free so the Christians were no more Greek and Jew but could say they had another king one Jesus. Modern Christians can say that with their lips but their deeds and actions say something else. Were early Christians died rather than sign up for the public religion of Rome that offered free bread at the expense of their neighbors by way of men like FDR and Obama who called themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other. Modern Christians have followed those pernicious ways instead of seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Yes it may seem judgmental to say "Modern Christians" aren't doing what Christ taught.

But if people have strayed it is the job of the ministers of Christ to point out where they went wrong. We are to rebuke those we love according to Revelation 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Visiting the widows and orphans was not dropping by with a card or flowers but providing for them so they did not have to go to those benefactors who exercise authority one over the other because their charity entangled the people in bondage because it was based on "one purse" and established by force.

This modern spotted religion of Modern Christians has 'entangled the people again with the yoke of bondage' because of their pernicious ways. I know many Christians are not far from the kingdom and their hearts are not far from Christ but like prodigal sons we must turn around [Repent] and head all the way back to our Fathers house to be his servant and not be forever studying but never coming to a full knowledge of the truth. We need ministers who are awake to the fullness of the gospel and teach the whole gospel and the truth about what Christ appointed us as his followers to seek and do.

This will all be the topic of 3 hours of radio broadcast today and is already explained in detail on our websites and in our books where we actually quote the transcripts of the trials of early Christians who were executed for not signing up for universal health care in Rome and other social welfare schemes set up back then when the republic of Rome went socialist and became despotic.

History does repeats itself and we should learn from it. We have a choice.We cannot change the course of history but we may change our role in it.

All roads lead to Rome and all roads lead to the kingdom of God. The question is which way are you going? Do modern ministers know and teach the way of Christ or have they been deceived too. It is really simple ... Loving one another is how we care for one another and if we are not doing it like Christ said we are not following him or His Way. Time to turn around and start seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness with our whole heart mind and soul.

I think it is important to let those modern Christians know that they have listened to those ministers who creep into houses, and lead captive silly men and women laden with sins who want to think they are right and keep seeking the benefits where Christ said not to go. I do you read your posts. Giving a little is token charity is not what we are told?

The Church did it all.

Social welfare from the government is what supports most of the poor in the churches of today. The Churches use to do it all and if they did it all for those who say they believe which means those who say they believe must give enough to the church to make it happen, then they would be actually following Christ and doing the will of the Father. They are not and Benny and the pastors who wont or are afraid to point out the difference between what Christ actually said and the early Church was doing are perpetuating the lie. Christ did die for all our sins but you still have to repent. One of those sins is coveting your neighbors goods through men who exercise authority. This was a major theme of the gospel and part of Christ's specific instructions. Many Modern Christians still hope to apply for their benefits from those false benefactors... They will have to because the Church is not doing what Christ said or preaching what he told us to do. That sin needs to be rebuked. So I am on topic because those sins without distinction are not forgiven unless you repent.

• Benny: Turning from sins and doing works of righteousness is a good thing... Just like turning from alcohol, drug or sexual addictions is a good thing. Indeed, we should turn from those things and do good works.

Turning away from sin and doing good works will not save us no matter how hard we try... There will always be something our carnal flesh and mind will not give up.

Why would Paul the Apostle the man who was given the revelation of the Gospel that saves us today cry out these words...

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Because we need a Saviour and that Saviour is Jesus Christ believing that He died for our sins according to the scriptures and that He was buried and rose again from the dead according to the scriptures. 1 Cor 15:1-4

Read Paul's declaration of faith....in Romans 7:25

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Turning from sins and doing works of righteousness is a good thing... Just like turning from alcohol, drug or sexual addictions is a good thing. Indeed, we should turn from those things and do good works. Turning away from sin and doing good works will not save us no matter how hard we try... There will always be something our carnal flesh and mind will not give up. Why would Paul the Apostle the man who was given the revelation of the Gospel that saves us today cry out these words... Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Because we need a Saviour and that Saviour is Jesus Christ believing that He died for our sins according to the scriptures and that He was buried and rose again from the dead according to the scriptures. 1 Cor 15:1-4 Read Paul's declaration of faith....in Romans 7:25 Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

• Gregory Williams: Paul preached the gospel of Christ and Christ said Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Note the word might. It is very clear that the words of Jesus and Paul and others tell us that people will think they are saved but are not and we will be able to know them by their fruits. I they are workers of iniquity though they say they believe then it is clear that it is not the Lord writing on their hearts but the adversary who does not want the people to repent and seek the kingdom that they might not be saved. The devil believes who Jesus is but he just does not want to do what Jesus said so he loves it when people say there is nothing you have to do to be saved but just think you believe. This does not mean you will not be saved by grace. Paul is write there but you have to repent which means turn around and away from the ways of unrighteousness. People have to stop coveting their neighbor's goods through men who call themselves benefactors but exercise authority one over the other and start taking care of one anther through charity and the perfect law of liberty. That is what the early church that Paul was writing was doing but that is not what Modern Christians are doing. The Pharisees were condemned because they were doing what Modern Christians are found doing daily.