Template talk:Contradictions of Paul 16

false claim In 1 Cor. 5:9, Paul clearly writes: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. What did Pharisees like Paul say was Jesus' sin or error? Eating with sinners. In Luke 15:1, the Pharisees accused Jesus of error, saying: "This man receives sinners and eats with them." Then Jesus defends this practice in a Parable of the Lost Sheep -- that if you have a lost sheep, you don't wait for it to come home, but you go out to where you can find it, and then lead it back home. Jesus defends proactively socializing with sinners so as to bring them home as lost sheep, which included eating with sinners: Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus.2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 Then Jesus told them this parable:4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. (Luke 15:1-4.) In another context, Jesus gives a similar defense when the Pharisees similarly accused Jesus of the alleged error of eating and socializing with sinners: 5 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him.16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mark 2:15-17 NIV.) Jesus defended the practice of making an effort to socialize with sinners to bring them back from a lost condition to a saved one. For the "healthy" don't need a doctor to call upon them -- only the sick (sinners in context). But Paul says the opposite. Don't "eat" with sinners, Paul clearly says. Hence, 1 Cor. 5:9 contradicts Jesus's clear practice of eating with sinners. This is akin to Paul's idea of "turning" people over to Satan, abandoning them and praying Satan takes control of their lives. Jesus says this is an error -- Jesus instead says you seek to turn such people from Satan and back to God. The only argument that Jesus supposedly agrees with Paul comes from Jesus' direction that within the church, we were to confront brothers / sisters with sins against us, and only after this process is taken in two unsuccessful steps, then you should treat the sinner as a tax collector / sinner. See Matt. 18. Yet, this does not mean not eating with them, as Jesus made a point to eat with tax collectors and sinners as representative of "my sheep who are lost" and need "repentance." Jesus included them as if they were his sheep previously -- implicitly saved sheep at one point -- but are now lost. The good shepherd exclaims when he comes home "I have found MY sheep who was lost." (Luke 15:6.) These are "sinners who repent" in distinction from "righteous sheep" who need no repentance. Luke 15:7. Treating someone as a tax collector thus meant treating them differently but did not mean to not eat with them. This likely meant not to give them the special greeting of shalom (God's peace) or visiting them in their home. Why do I suggest that? Because John speaks in his epistle that we should not take certain heretics into our home or give them such a greeting. Jesus' instructions to treat someone as a "sinner" thus does not necessarily mean not eating with them. In light of Jesus' practice of eating with sinners who were part of "my sheep" previously, we should not construe it to prohibit eating with sinning Christians as a means of bringing back a "lost sheep" that once were obedient followers of Jesus. Paul Teaches We Are Eternally Secure, But Jesus Teaches Insecurity to a Sinning Believer Another important example is that most evangelicals believe Paul teaches we are eternally secure if we simply believe one time (Romans 8:1; 10:9; Eph. 2:8-9.) Calvinists similarly say salvation can never be lost due to predestination. (Phil. 1:6; Eph. 1:5,13-14; 2 Tim. 1:12; Rom. 8:29.) However, Jesus is repeatedly warning Christians to feel insecure about their salvation when sinning. All the ‘weeping and gnashing’ parables fit in this category. All the non-parabolic statements about hell fire for misbehavior by “anyone” fit in the same category. “Every tree that lacks good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire.” (Mat.7:19.) “Anyone who says ‘Fool’ is in danger of hell-fire” (Matt. 5:22), etc. Indeed, Paul’s teachings above directly undermine the Lord’s most extreme hyperbole -- repeated three different times. Jesus addresses the apostles as “you”--and says “you” have a choice: you can go to hell whole or heaven maimed. Jesus then explains that entry into heaven is dependent on you bravely cutting off body-parts ensnaring you in sin. (Mark 9:42-47; Matt.5:29-30; 18:6-9.) Jesus means to cut off the temptation and lust for fleshly sins causing "you" -- the apostles in context -- to sin. Thus, Paul’s message of eternal security in these passages and your inability to fail to reach heaven negates the purpose behind every warning that Jesus gives. Paul thereby directly undermines Jesus’ effort to implore the most urgent need to engage in salvation-restoring repentance. Paul's View of Justification versus Jesus' View of Justification When Jesus uses the term “justified,” Jesus links it to repentance from sin. The publican who repents from sin in deep regret goes home “justified.” The Pharisee who does not do so and thinks he has nothing ever to regret, goes home unjustified. (Luke 18:14.) What does Paul teach instead? Paul says you are “justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.” (Rom. 4:2.) "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5, KJV.) Once that happens, we have “peace with God.” (Rom. 5:1.) Once ‘justified’ in that manner, “we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through him.” (Rom. 5:9.) Paul teaches a manner never to have regret again -- by the mere step of believing -- and you are justified while yet ungodly, i.e., unrepentant from sin. At least, this is how the young Luther and most construe Paul's meaning in Romans 4:5.