View source for Liberty degenerate

[[File:Jesusfeeds.jpg|right|250px|thumb|[[Abraham]], [[Moses]], [[John the Baptist]],  and [[Jesus]] advocated the [[perfect law of liberty]] and that their [[follow]]ers get their [[daily bread]] by way of a [[Daily ministration]] that was dependent on [[freewill offering]]s or [[fervent charity]] rather than provided by the governments of the [[world]] who call themselves [[benefactors]].<Ref>[[benefactors]] defined as those " who gives money or other help to a person or cause"</Ref> <Br>We see the [[early Church]] acting in ''one accord'' to provide that [[daily bread]] to the people through the practice of [[Pure Religion]] in the temple and from house to house<Ref>[[Acts 2]]:46  "And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,"</Ref> all over the [[world]]. This was so [[early Christians]] did not have eat of the [[tables]] of those [[benefactors]] offering the [[free bread]] of [[Rome]] and other governments who "[[exercise authority]].<Br>The [[early Church]] provided all [[social welfare]] for [[Christians]] through [[charity]] alone because Jesus said in: [[Luke 22]]:25  "...The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that [[exercise authority]] upon them are called [[benefactors]]. But ye [shall] not [be] so:"<Br>They also took up collections regularly, appointed "[[Seven men]]" to move funds so that they could take [[care]] of all emergency relief during the "[[dearth]]s" that swept across the Roman empire.<Br>They knew from the [[prophets]] and the [[warnings]] of David, Paul, and Peter that to desire the [[free bread]] of [[Rome]] would have been the [[covetous practices]] which were a [[snare|snare and a trap]] but it was also "[[idolatry]]".<Ref name="Isidolatry">{{Isidolatry}}</Ref> They clearly had a complex well organized "[[daily ministration]]" and it was not like the system of "[[Corban]]" of the [[Pharisees]] nor [[Rome]] which made the word of God to none effect.]]

== Liberty degenerated ==

Question proposed on Facebook from Paul VP, 

: '''"When people first became Christians, it is true that they organized politically as a [[FEMA|mutual aid community]] that had zero [[Coercive_Church|coercion]]. However, did they completely disengage from any commerce or work within the existing supply chains of the State-captured economy and did they exclusively only produce and trade with and for one another?"'''

=== [[Liberty degenerate]]s audio ===
Recording of broadcast concerning [[John 7]]:
: [https://www.hisholychurch.org/audio/20240302Libertydegenerates.mp3 Download Recording answering the loss of liberty today]<Br> <html><audio controls src="https://www.hisholychurch.org/audio/20240302Libertydegenerates.mp3"></audio></html> 


[[Early Christians]] were [[capitalism|capitalists]] and had another king. None of the [[early Church]] applied for [[benefits]] from other governments.

Many soldiers even became Christians. What made them separate and [[Peculiar people|peculiar]] was that they would not sign up to take the [[free bread]] offered by the Roman government and other [[city-state]]s?

They were even persecuted when Rome outlawed [[private religion]]. 
See [[Vigellius Saturninus]] and the [[Acts of the Scillitan Martyrs]],  https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Free_bread


: ''"Gregory, in today's economy, receiving [[welfare]] is clearly "[[free bread]]"."''

But, how about working and earning a salary from a corporation, or even earning salary in FRN USD, which is preferentially available to the friends of the State and those close to them, and which is a [[bondage]] device for the poor?


''' Gregory's comment Updated'''
: Paul VP the present day citizens  of the [[world]] have returned completely back into the [[bondage of Egypt]] where they are dependent upon the governments of the [[world]] for the health [[care]], [[welfare]], [[education]] of their children, and even the [[Corban|care of their parents]]. 

The Israelites went into [[bondage]] because they would not hear the cries of their brother. 

: [[Genesis 42]]:21 "And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us. 22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required."

==failure to care ==

The same is true today. 

For generations the people did not provide for the needy through [[fervent charity]]. But the people have an [[appetite]] for the "[[dainties]] of rulers" who [[exercise authority]]<Ref name="exauth">{{exauth}}</Ref> one over the other through the [[rudiments]] of the [[world]].

[[Colossians 2]]:20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the [[rudiments]] of the [[world]], why, as though living in the [[world]], are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and [[doctrines of men]]?"<Ref name="Touchnot">{{Touchnot}}</Ref>
  . 
* [[Colossians 3]] :5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; [[fornication]], uncleanness, inordinate affection, [[evil]] concupiscence, and '''[[covetousness]], which is [[idolatry]]''':"<Ref name="Isidolatry">{{Isidolatry}}</Ref> 
 
We need to ''[[repent]]'' because of [[Colossians 3]]:6 "For which things' sake the [[wrath of God]] cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, [[wrath]], malice, [[blasphemy]], filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;"
 
Take a lesson from [[Exodus]]:

While in the [[bondage of Egypt]] the Israelites would have to learn to [[care]] for one another during hard times, still working in the system of Egypt but without the "straw", the  [[benefits]], given by the [[pharaoh]]'s government during plagues before they were free to go. We may get the same opportunity. It is time to become [[doers]] of the word. 

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Bondage_of_Egypt


== Uttering words against governments ==


Brian K: "According to the New Testament they still existed within the Roman society, having jobs, owning businesses, and even GASP being both masters owning slaves and slaves owned by masters, and paying taxes to the Roman government as commanded by Jesus, Paul and Peter, and never once uttering one word about government being an inherently immoral idea, but preaching the Second Coming of the Righteous Monarch who will slaughter all who oppose Him when He returns."

Gregory writes:
<blockquote>
"Brian K I read most of your comments and conversation with Matthew T. There are things missing in your rational."

First, when you say, "paying taxes to the Roman government as commanded by Jesus, Paul and Peter, and never once uttering one word about government being an inherently immoral idea, but preaching the Second Coming of the Righteous Monarch who will slaughter all who oppose Him when He returns".

What Jesus said,  [[Matthew 22]]:20  "And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription? 21  They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, '''Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s'''; and unto God the things that are God’s."

If we owe the tax pay it. 

== Owes the tax ==

The question is "Why do you owe the tax?

* [[Proverbs 12]]:24 "The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute."

Slothful in what? 

[[Slothful]] in [[The Way]] of Christ and also the way of [[Moses]] which were in agreement for the most part once you understand what the [[Pharisees]] got wrong.

One of the taxes in Judea starting with [[Herod]] and in [[Rome]] was the [[Corban]] of the [[Pharisees]]. In the Old Testament [[Corban]] was a [[freewill offering]]but not at that time. 

Signing up with the government [[temples]] of [[Herod]] was the [[covetous practices]] that ''made the word of God to none effect''. Jesus said we were not to be like the governments of the gentiles,<Ref name="exauth">{{exauth}}</Ref> Paul said ''eat not, touch not''<Ref name="Touchnot">{{Touchnot}}</Ref> and that [[covetous]]ness was [[idolatry]]<Ref name="Isidolatry">{{Isidolatry}}</Ref> and Peter said that [[covet]]ousness would make us [[merchandise]] and [[curse children]].<Ref name="covetnot">{{covetnot}}</Ref>

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Corban
</blockquote>

Matthew T I was reading your debate with Brian K and already responded to him concerning objections by Jesus, Paul, Peter, and all the prophets against signing up for [[social welfare]] from governments that "[[exercise authority]]"<Ref name="exauth">{{exauth}}</Ref> to get [[benefits]], government "[[dainties]]", at the expense of your neighbor like the "[[Corban]]" of the [[Pharisees]]and the [[Social Security]] system of [[FDR]] and men like [[LBJ]]. The bondage the [[appetite]] of the [[masses]] for their [[dainties]] has expanded year after year because of the [[apostasy]] of the Modern Church who is the [[harlot]] and the daughters of the whore. 

Jesus preached a government, took the government from the Pharisees<Ref name="ktaken">{{ktaken}}</Ref> and appointed it to His little flock. <Ref name="Appointk">{{Appointk}}</Ref>

You owe the tax as a ''[[Patrimonial]] right'' which why Christ said ''call no man [[father]]''. If you do not know why he said that then you need to read... https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Father

== Temples and the government ==


We need to understand all [[temples]] were government buildings providing services. It is the ''means and methods'', policies and practices, of the government and the people that often distinguishes the righteous and unrighteous [[mammon]].

I thought I would address [[Romans 13]] since both of you are a little confused about what it is actually saying.

[[Romans 13]] is about your '''power or "liberty" of choice'''. 
: See the article:
: https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Romans_13
: or read the book:
: [https://www.hisholychurch.org/printer/THLprint.pdf The Higher Liberty]

Jesus was preaching a self government that keeps the [[captive]] free.

=== Not immune ===

Matthew T wrote Brian K saying Jesus told Peter they were "immune from the temple tax, and had him miraculously find a coin in a fish’s mouth to pay the tax “so as not to pay offense.”

Matthew T They were not really "immune from the temple tax."  While Jesus did not owe the tax as the virtual high priest and king and Peter may have not been "registered" (another issue). 

 
https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Pay_tribute

The problem was Peter had miss spoke by answer the question with "Yes".  What did Jesus say about that?

Jesus was just making his yes, yes.

[[Matthew 5]]:37 "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

In fact, that seems to be the entire attitude of the [[early Christians]] to all these immoral systems of [[taxation]] and forms of [[Corvee]] type [[slavery]] such as the [[bondage of Egypt]] which the whole [[world]] has returned to for much the same reasons.

The problem is the people, both Jew and Christian, among others have gone a whoring after the [[wages of unrighteousness]] and are in need of [[repent]]ance.

In essence we have been told, as it is written, [[Romans 12]]:18  "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." But if you desire benefits through men who exercise authority or take from others to give to you then you are not '''living peaceably'''.  

“Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them."

Yet, ultimately: “But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.”

== Registered ==

It appears many of the disciples ''[[idiotes|unregistered]]'' with the system of [[Corban]] set up by [[Herod]] and the Pharisees. They may not have been legally required to pay the tax being [[idiotes|unregistered]]. 

The followers of Christ who were learning [[the Way]] still owed the tax even though Jesus said it was "making the word of God to none effect" of they had signed up and gotten the [[Baptism]] of the Jews. 

We know that the chief rulers would eventually make the rule that if you professed Jesus as the Christ you would be kicked out of the system.

This all in the Bible and we show you where for free which is why we share the links.

[[Modern Christians]] which may not be real followers of Christ but [[workers of iniquity]] as Jesus and all the apostles warned when they were told you cannot just say [[Lord Lord]].

At the moment most people are not ready to be put out of the system they have created over the last 100 years. They are registered and they are not doing what the [[Early Church]] was doing. 

:[[John 9]]:22 "These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be [[put out]] of the [[synagogue]]."

==Paul not a citizen of Rome ==

Was Paul a Roman citizen and what was the real meaning of Rhomaios. 

[[Paul the Apostle]] was called a “Roman” in some translations of the Bible, but the word that appears in the original text is the Greek word Rhomaios which did not mean a "Roman citizen" at that time.

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Was_Paul_a_Roman_Citizen

Everyone should know all centurions were granted Roman citizenship but right in the text the head of the cohort tells you he had to pay a great sum for the freedom that comes with the status of Rhomaios. Everyone should have been suspicious that Roman citizenship and Rhomaios were not the same thing.

I know I know it jumped out at me a half a century ago when I read it.

There are lots of words that people are kept in ignorance of especially if they think they already know.

Read the whole article at:
: https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Was_Paul_a_Roman_Citizen



== Paul's appeal ==


Paul's appeal to [[Caesar]] was a legal strategy to protect Christians. He had no need to appeal because he had already as good as won the case.

While his case for the kingdom was pending before Caesar few judges appointed by Caesar would rule against Christians on the same grounds. He was sacrificing himself to make amends for his persecutions of Christians. Besides he had relatives in Rome and he was able to stay with them.

Joseph F  was very confused about Paul's appeal to  Caesar. He thought it was "not as a legal strategy"<Ref>Joseph F wrote:
: ''"Gregory W  you have raised very different issues from Michael P. He is lasar focused on the Biblical definition of law and social foundations like few I’ve met."'' 
: ''"What you say is a more traditional view. But a little too American. I think Paul made his appointment with Caesar not as a legal strategy, Roman persecution was still 20 years in the future. He was booking a sit down with Caesar which was the only thing He really cared to get out of his jail time."'' 
: ''"The point I was making for Michael is Paul used whatever socio-cultural connections he had, to advance the kingdom. Neither he nor Jesus saw a principle based need to renounce or remain uninvolved in the social and economic world including social/legal ties. He nor Jesus did not renounce his citizenship or tell soldiers to renounce the military or slaves to renounce masters. While Jesus might say, “sell all and follow me.” And “let the dead bury the dead” neither seemed to think being or not being a citizen soldier even Rabbi mattered. They didn’t seem to think, what today are called “structural evil’s” needed boycotts, renunciation, going AWAL or refusing to pay taxes."''</Ref>

He thought I was not laser focused but he does not know how the court worked. Only someone who was Rhomaios could appeal to Caesar and likely were ''foreign'' to the ''administrative law'' of Rome.

And my answer was not "a traditional view" at all so he clearly missed the point. Persecutions had already begun because Paul had been persecuting Christians. So his "20 year" comment falls short. 

Paul had switched jurisdictions. Why do you think Paul was on trial? 

He had said "Roman persecutions" but the Pharisees had already said the ''had no king but Caesar'' and [[Pontius Pilate]] had official proclaimed that Jesus was the king of the Jews. 

Paul's appeal to Caesar guaranteed protection for Christians from lower courts in Judea and many [[city-state]]s who would find their rulings appealed to local Roman judges appointed by the [[Apotheos]] of [[Rome]].

== Jesus renounces many governments ==

Joseph F wrote:
''"Neither he nor Jesus saw a principle based need to renounce or remain uninvolved in the social and economic world including social/legal ties."
''

Jesus did "renounce and remained uninvolved in the social and economic [[world]] of the [[Pharisees]] who sat in the seat of Moses including "social/legal ties" of their [[Corban]] which was their [[welfare]] system run by their government. He also kept the apostles out of that "[[world]]". Jesus renounced that government and became the kingdom of another government. <Ref name="Anothking">{{Anothking}}</Ref>

The [[Corban]] of [[Moses]] and the [[Corban of Christ]] were in principle the same but the [[Corban]] of the Pharisees was not and for that reason the government was renounced and going to be taken away from them.<Ref name="ktaken">{{ktaken}}</Ref>

And Jesus and Paul and Peter and James and all the prophets said don't eat at their [[tables]],<Ref name="Touchnot">{{Touchnot}}</Ref> because their [[welfare]] is a [[snare]]<Ref name="snaretrap">{{snaretrap}}</Ref> and the [[dainties]] and [[wages of unrighteous]], make you [[merchandise]], [[curse children]]. These government systems ''made the word of God to none effect'' and they destroyed liberty<Ref name="desliberty">{{desliberty}}</Ref> and he told us not to be ''of those systems of the [[world]]'' nor like them.<Ref name="exauth">{{exauth}}</Ref>

God hatesthe deeds of those systems.<Ref name="Errorbn">{{Errorbn}}</Ref>

But more important we are to seek the [[kingdom of God]] and the [[Corban]] of Christ.

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Corban_of_Christ

=== Capitalism of the kingdom ===

Jesus and Moses were capitalists. Why would anyone object to commerce which is defined  as: “the exchanging, buying, or selling of things having economic value between two or more entities, for example goods, services, and money"

Certainly if money is used it should be just weights and measures.

You can be a subjects of [[Rome]] and be a Christian. You could be a soldier, a slave, a prisoner. What makes you a Christian is [[repent]]ance which means "thinking differently". And seeking the [[kingdom of God]] and His [[righteousness]].

The thinking differently would be thinking like Christ according to the "word" which is the "[[Logos]]" of Christ.

If we had the [[Logos]] of Christ we would not [[covet]],<Ref name="comeinto">{{comeinto}}</Ref> we would not [[consent]]<Ref name="consentnot">{{consentnot}}</Ref> to serve others, we would not oppress others. we would [[forgive]], we would do the will of the [[Father]] in heaven and not pray to ''the [[fathers]] of the earth'' to get [[benefits]]. 

We would lay down our life for our fellow man if our [[Father]] calls us to.

The [[modern Christian]] covets his neighbor's goods through men who [[exercise authority]]<Ref name="exauth">{{exauth}}</Ref> which is the opposite of Christ. 

They are doing so many things the Christ oppose and not doing some of the basics that Christ commanded. This is why we write and talk about the Gospel of the kingdom and the Logos of Christ.

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Logos

==Begin at the beginning ==

People have to start seeking the kingdom which is a process. The network was already forming with John. More joined with Jesus. Those who started seeking "The Way" of righteousness were often still in the system and had to pay the tax. No one is saying that people have to leave the system. But they have to start following the way, gathering in the tens, forming the free assemblies, learning by doing. 

The [[apostles]] were separate as "[[idiotes]]" and gave up everything to serve. It is hard to find many to do that work. The same with  Jesus. As we saw disciples leaving in [[John 6]] because the means and method of Christ frightened men of ''little faith''.<Ref name="littlef">{{littlef}}</Ref>

Many will make excuses, just like at the time of Jesus. 

There are those who think they are out of the system but fail to serve but like the "[[foolish virgins]]" they may be locked out. We will not jump into the kingdom of God but [[seek]] it. The closest thing to mass convention was Pentecost but if it was not for the original laborers and contributes there would be no 70 or 120 in the upper room. 

There would have been no one to welcome those thousands. The prodigal son had to just start back to his father's house willing to serve. If he kept making excuses he would have died eating the pig scraps.

If you are dependent upon a government or ruler who exercises authority to provide you with [benefits] by taking from others or increasing debt for your children, then you need to think differently. That means you are in need of [[repent]]ance. You can start by gathering in [[tens]]. We are to not "Exercise authority one over the other":

* Matthew 20:25 "But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great [[exercise authority]] upon them. But it shall not be so among you:..."
* Mark 10:42 "But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones [[exercise authority]] upon them. But ye shall not be so:..."
* Luke 22:25 "And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that [[exercise authority]] upon them are called [[benefactors]]. But ye [shall] not [be] so:..."
 

== Archbishop Vigano ==
 

Archbishop Vigano speaks on the Great reset, Klause Schwab, and the WEF.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/yu1UqMSs3ije3UhB/

Why does he not tell the people to seek the real [[kingdom of God]] in the [[Tens]] like Christ [[commanded]] his disciples and create the [[social bonds]] of a free people through the practice of [[pure Religion]] rather the [[covetous practices]] of [[public religion]] through the State which the Catholic Church has encouraged for years even though the Bible tells us it is a [[snare]], Jesus says [[Corban|it makes the word of God to none effect]] and we should not be that way,<Ref name="exauth">{{exauth}}</Ref> and Paul tells us to eat not of those [[tables]] for they are [[idolatry]],<Ref name="Isidolatry">{{Isidolatry}}</Ref> and Peter says they will make us [[merchandise]] and [[curse Children]].

https://preparingyou.com/wiki/Pure_religion

[[Category:Articles]]