Learned Hand

On the Pennsylvania group someone mentioned Ubuntu movement in South Africa. We have done shows [links below] on that topic and shared our view on the topics.

Someone else responded with quotes from Judge Learned Hand.

I am familiar with the first quote concerning "All discussion, all debate" although I never used it in the books. It was in an address to the Jewish community. It also appeared in Learned Hand, "A Plea for the Freedom of Dissent," published in The New York Times Magazine, Feb. 6, 1955, p. 33.

The quote is often taken out of context to imply that there is something wrong with discussion and debate, as if it is almost "subversive".

But if you read it in context you will actually see that he was encouraging "All discussion, all debate, all dissidence," because it shows true faith to be willing to question.

You can read at least one account where he used his quote at http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=883&dat=19550211&id=BfJOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=e0wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5874,3445612

Hand went on to say "Heretics have been hateful from the beginning of recorded time; they have been ostracized, exiled, tortured, maimed and butchered; but it has generally proved impossible to smother them; and when it has not, the society that has succeeded has always declined. Facades of authority, however imposing, do not survive after it has appeared that they rest upon the sands of human conjecture and compromise. and so, if I an to say what are "the principles of civil liberties and human rights," I answer that they lie in habits, custom ---- conventions, if you will---- that tolerate dissent, and can live without irrefragile certainties; that are ready to overhaul existing assumptions; that recognize that we never see save through a glass, darkly; and that at long last we shall succeed only so far as we continue to undertake "the intolerable labor of thought", ---- that most distasteful of all our activities. If such a habit and such a temper pervade a society, it will not need institutions to protect its "civil liberties and human rights"; so far as they do not, I ventured to doubt how far anything else can protect them: whether the Bill of Rights, or courts that must in the name of interpretation read their meaning into them."

The truth is Christ was a heretic from the point of view of some. Modern Christian religion has more in common with those who crucified Christ than with Christ himself or his teachings and there is little humility amongst those professing him to even see what he was telling us much less do it.

The true heretic reigns as Christian apologists today who would murder true Christians as quickly as they have murdered the true "Gospel of the kingdo.m".

Corliss Lamont wrote in their book on FREEDOM IS AS FREEDOM DOES quoted the judge in their own discussion on those who feared debate because of their lack of faith and conviction.

"More recently Judge Learned Hand has criticized the increasingly common resort to the term "subversive" and "other question begging words. Their imprecision comforts us by enabling us to suppress arguments that disturb our complacency and yet to continue to congratulate ourselves on keeping the faith as we have received it from the Founding Fathers. . . . The precipitate of our experience is far from absolute verity, and our exasperated resentment at all dissent is a sure index of our doubts. Take, for instance, our constant recourse to the word, 'subversive,' as a touchstone of impermissible deviation from accepted canons. All discussion, all debate, all dissidence, tends to question in consequence hence to upset existing convictions: that is precisely its purpose and its justification. He is, indeed, a 'subversive" who disputes those precepts and seeks to persuade me to substitute his own.' "

Discussion and debate is not the problem. It is our lack of real faith. Real faith fears not discussion, nor debate. But real faith compels us to act, to be doers of the word. Early Christianity along with Moses' Israel and the altars of Abraham were a network of faith, hope and charity where the spirit of freedom allowed a nation of people to govern themselves with free will offerings. That doing molded society as it pulled on the hearts and character of the people. When they neglect their responsibilities they loose sight of the mystery of what made them free.

If we will not be doers of the word then we will soon not be hearers of it either.

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From: hhcpennsylvania Network group

"All discussion, all debate, all dissidence tends to question and in consequence, to upset existing convictions; that is precisely its purpose and its justification." -- Judge Learned Hand(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals

“I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and courts. These are false hopes, believe me; these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no Constitution, no law, no court can save it.” -- Judge Learned Hand, Chief Judge of the US Court of Appeals, Second Circuit 1872-1961

"Political agitation, by the passions it arouses or the convictions it engenders, may in fact stimulate men to the violation of the law. Detestation of existing politics is easily transformed into forcible resistance of the authority which puts them in execution…" -- Judge Learned Hand(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals Source: Masses Pub Co. v. Patten, 1917

"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no Constitution, no court, can even do much to help it." -- Judge Learned Hand(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals

"I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon law and upon courts. These are false hopes, believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there it needs no constitution, no law, no courts to save it." -- Judge Learned Hand(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands." -- Judge Learned Hand(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals Source: in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

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Original Message ----------

concerning Ubuntu shows

We did a radio show on the Ubuntu idea and different variations of it.

Ubuntu and charity

Ubuntu and charity that strengthens the poor. Feeding the poor from the altars of God. When you are in need "Who ya going to call?". Feet treading on the stones of Abraham. Blood and blessings. The Blessed Strategy. Frederick Bastiat and socialism, government and society. State education, Religion. Anarchist and welfare Corban. Free house Free Keys, Free_housing. Red heifer. Real Church and real charity. http://www.hisholychurch.net/kkvv/x3folder/140104-THL-01lr.mp3

Two other shows in the series mentions Ubuntu..

We are looking for reliable trustees to set up much of what the early church was doing but we only look amongst members of congregations of record. There we will train individuals to do the business of the kingdom we see Peter appointing in Acts.

Democracy

The church is one form of government. Society, entrepreneurship, industry, service, self-sustainability. Each church a republic. Isaac Heath, John Bowles and John Eliot, Jr. Electoral College. Juries make law. Levites, Saul and Rehoboam. America is a democracy within a republic. American Creed. Right to vote and oath of U.S. citizenship. Consumerism. Homeschooling. Quotes on Democracy. Miltias. Investment. Loyalty to righteousness, law, judgment, mercy, faith. Socialism, The Spirit of American government by J. Allen Smith. Sacrifice and responsibility. Governments are bankrupt. One Child Contract - China. Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire Edward Gibbon. Greed and covetousness. The modern church, warning against rejecting God's ways. The Church as Small Business Administration, education, health, welfare. Gallstones, kidney stones, apple juice, magnesium. Ubuntu. Definition of democracy in 1928 - U.S. Army Training Manual. Reece Committee Report. Empowerment in Christianity. Virtue. What makes a great country? Democracy From the book The Higher Liberty, Sec. 14 http://www.hisholychurch.net/kkvv/x3folder/140104-THL-02lrDemocracy.mp3

Deception

Right to choose. Inalienable rights. Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Tree of Life. Frederic Bastiat - Society vs. government. Social compact. Divine revelation. Socialism. Corban, contributionism. Witt, Roosevelt, Medicare. Changing definitions. Public school, state religion. Pure religion. Anarchists. Homeschooling, families. Government of God and His righteousness. Rights require responsibility. Early church. Definition of religion - Bouvier's Law Dictionary. Definition of world - Constitutional order or system of government. Republican Party. Anarchists in Spain. Responsible, brave people cannot be placed under subjection. The Cain principle. Food supply, preparedness. Roman empire and the price of grain. James Russell Lowell. Oppression. Leviticus 25:17. Thomas Jefferson - Notes on Virginia "Liberties are the gift of God". Psalm 119:45 God's precepts, liberty. Democracy, indirect democracy. Numbers do not create righteousness. Constitutions, laws and courts are false hopes for liberty. The Spirit of Liberty Judge Learned Hand - "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women.". James 1:25 - the perfect law of liberty. Love and concern for others. Doers of the word. Romans 13 - Greek word for power. The Higher Liberty. Man's dominion. Cain, Nimrod, Augustus. Church and State - pattern of 10's, 100's, 1000's in history. Constantine. Power of the church belongs to families, elders. Early church vs. modern church. Ubuntu. Early America, freewill contributions. Mission of the church. Destruction of Christianity. Plutarch, George Washington. Abraham, Moses set up true republican form of government. Israel decided to have a king, rejection of God. Contracts, Covenants and Constitutions. Families are the supreme institution of God. Kingdom of God. Priests. Leviticus 25:10 - Proclaim liberty. Sloth and avarice. Taxes in Israel - tithes. Network of tens, hundreds and thousands. Sabbath. Herod, Hyrcanus. Riots in Jesus' time, Pontius Pilate. Charity. Abraham, living altars. The Sophistry and the Sacrifice. Offices of service, Levites. Pure republics. Love is binding. Economy of families. Numbers 3:12 Firstborn, Levites, Elders. Cain, civil state, city state. Lamech. Voluntarism. Golden calf. Spartans. Adolph Hitler. Grain as wealth, Egypt. Faith, hope and charity. New covenant priests. Pharisees altered Corban Deception From the book The Higher Liberty, Sec. 16 http://www.hisholychurch.net/kkvv/x3folder/140104-THL-03Deception.mp3