Talk:Corban: Difference between revisions
(Created page with ""The second service, that of " the Corban " {oblation), or what we shall call the Communion Service, began by the priest vesting and washing his hands, after which the bread...") |
No edit summary |
||
| (9 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
"The second service, that of " the Corban " | Spirit of Qurban | ||
"The spirit of qurban breeds the spirit of sharing, sharing with fellow humans, especially those who are less able, and those who are in need. The spirit of qurban also gives birth to the spirit of sharing humanity more broadly..." | |||
"Prayer and qurban lessons have vertical and horizontal dimensions. Prayer teaches us to build a good relationship with Allah. (hablun minallah), and berqurban teaches us to build good relations with fellow human beings (hablun minannas)." | |||
The spirit defiled | |||
"The spirit of qurban must give birth to a spirit of sharing, not only sharing with the people around us who are close to our homes, but it also needs to be extended to areas far from where we live, especially in the Terdepan, Terluar, dan Tertinggal areas (forefront, outermost, and disadvantaged) .<Ref name="">[https://umsida.ac.id/rektor-umsida-semangat-berqurban-semangat-bebagi/ Rector Umsida]</Ref> | |||
The right of a desire for the "realization of social justice for all the people of Indonesia" where it may be imagined that '''wealth should not occur to accumulate only in a small number of people, while there are still too many poor people below the poverty line." | |||
What is the means and method to bring about his vision of "social justice"? | |||
He recites what seems to be [[the way]] of [[Abraham]], [[Moses]], all the [[prophets]], and [[Jesus]] when he writes: | |||
"The existence of inequality should not occur if we all have high awareness and are serious in providing assistance to people who are less able." | |||
Then he goes down a path which man is repeatedly warned against when he calls upon the rulers of the world to provide "human resources" to increase "welfare" of the poor and weak".<Ref>"The government, religious leaders, community leaders, capital owners, and other related parties, need to raise new awareness in efforts to increase their attention and alignments in increasing human resources and the welfare of the poor and weak people."</Ref> | |||
"The unequal condition of a nation cannot change if the nation itself does not try seriously to change it. This is in accordance with the word of Allah SWT. in QS. Ar-Ra’du verse 11 which clearly reminds us that changing the condition of a nation requires seriousness in making changes. The change that we want will not be realized if we do not have the ability or capacity. For this reason, we must strive to increase the ability or capacity and the desired changes intentionally (by design) must be designed in earnest." | |||
"The government implements political will by making policies that favor the improvement of the welfare of small communities who are less able, as well as elements of society who are able to also conduct philanthropic movements, movements to love fellow human beings and human values, movements to contribute thoughts, time, energy, and possessions to help others who are less able, so that gradually and systemically will lift weak citizens into strong, and ultimately also strengthen Indonesia as a nation on the world stage." | |||
"The second service, that of " the Corban " (oblation), or what we shall call the Communion Service, began by the priest vesting and washing his hands, after which the bread and wine (the latter mixed) were brought from the prothesis, or credence table, and placed on the altar." | |||
On page 325 they talk about taking "part in the Corbano (Eucharist)..." PORTUGUESE DISCOVERIES DEPENDENCIES AND MISSIONS IN ASIA AND AFRICA pp358 Present State of the Syrian Christians. COMPILED BY THE REV ALEX J D D'ORSEY Cambridge Knight Commander of the Portuguese Order of Christ late Professor in Kin£s College London | |||
"The question at hand is whether or not the recipient is worthy of the proferred alms. Only certain people are to be given alms, as laid out in the Gospel | |||
---- | |||
" | |||
"The spirit of qurban breeds the spirit of sharing, sharing with fellow humans, especially those who are less able, and those who are in need. The spirit of qurban also gives birth to the spirit of sharing humanity more broadl..." | |||
"The spirit of qurban must give birth to a spirit of sharing, not only sharing with the people around us who are close to our homes, but it also needs to be extended to areas far from where we live, especially in the 3T areas (outermost, outermost, and disadvantaged) .* | |||
https://umsida.ac.id/rektor-umsida-semangat-berqurban-semangat-bebagi/ | |||
"The second service, that of " the Corban " (oblation), or what we shall call | |||
the Communion Service, began by the priest vesting and washing his hands, after which the bread and wine (the latter mixed) were brought from the prothesis, or credence table, and placed on the altar." | the Communion Service, began by the priest vesting and washing his hands, after which the bread and wine (the latter mixed) were brought from the prothesis, or credence table, and placed on the altar." | ||
| Line 9: | Line 56: | ||
out in the Gospel | out in the Gospel | ||
: And it seems to me that Christ explains in Luke 14:12–13 the sense which[a corporal work of mercy] had in the Old Testament: ‘When you make a dinner or a supper,’ he says, ‘call not your friends but call the poor, the maimed, the lame and the blind.’ Whereby it seems to me that he specifies completely to whom ought to be given bodily alms. Whereby it seems right that the poor be tripled in the words following, so that a rich bishop or other potentate of this world might be blind, but it is not the sense of the | |||
Lord that a man ought especially to feed him with corporal alms. Therefore, Christ intends [this] with regard to the poor blind, and for a similar reason he understands [it] with regard to the poor lame and the poor deformed as far as the body. And, as it seems to me, only to those ought the faithful to give bodily alms, because Christ, the most wise, is generally giving the doctrine of his church. <Rev>Sermones | == Wyclif Medieval England == | ||
: And it seems to me that Christ explains in Luke 14:12–13 the sense which[a corporal work of mercy] had in the Old Testament: ‘When you make a dinner or a supper,’ he says, ‘call not your friends but call the poor, the maimed, the lame and the blind.’ Whereby it seems to me that he specifies completely to whom ought to be given bodily alms. Whereby it seems right that the poor be tripled in the words following, so that a rich bishop or other potentate of this world might be blind, but it is not the sense of the Lord that a man ought especially to feed him with corporal alms. Therefore, Christ intends [this] with regard to the poor blind, and for a similar reason he understands [it] with regard to the poor lame and the poor deformed as far as the body. And, as it seems to me, only to those ought the faithful to give bodily alms, because Christ, the most wise, is generally giving the doctrine of his church. <Rev>Sermones | |||
IV.13,, p. 105/9–23: “Et videtur mihi quod Christus Luce XIV o, 12, 13 exponit sensum quem habet in veteri testamento:Cum facis, inquit, prandium aut cenam, noli vocare amicos sed voca pauperes debiles, claudos et cecos. Ubi videtur michi quod specificat quibus complete debet darielemosina corporalis; ubi certum videtur quod oportet pauperes in verbis sequentibus triplicare, ut posito quod dives episcopus vel alius potentatus seculi sit cecus non est sensus Domini quod homo debet specialiter pascere ipsum elemosina corporali, ideo Christus intendit de paupere ceco, et conformi racione intelligit de paupere claudo et de paupere debili quoad corpus. Et (ut videtur mihi) solum illis debet fidelis tribuere elemosinam corporalem, quia Christus summe sapiens dans generaliter doctrinam sue ecclesie.”</Ref> | IV.13,, p. 105/9–23: “Et videtur mihi quod Christus Luce XIV o, 12, 13 exponit sensum quem habet in veteri testamento:Cum facis, inquit, prandium aut cenam, noli vocare amicos sed voca pauperes debiles, claudos et cecos. Ubi videtur michi quod specificat quibus complete debet darielemosina corporalis; ubi certum videtur quod oportet pauperes in verbis sequentibus triplicare, ut posito quod dives episcopus vel alius potentatus seculi sit cecus non est sensus Domini quod homo debet specialiter pascere ipsum elemosina corporali, ideo Christus intendit de paupere ceco, et conformi racione intelligit de paupere claudo et de paupere debili quoad corpus. Et (ut videtur mihi) solum illis debet fidelis tribuere elemosinam corporalem, quia Christus summe sapiens dans generaliter doctrinam sue ecclesie.”</Ref> | ||
"Wyclif deals with several objections to this position. The first objection is that Jesus accepted alms, though he was neither lame, nor blind, nor maimed. Wyclif’s | "Wyclif deals with several objections to this position. The first objection is that Jesus accepted alms, though he was neither lame, nor blind, nor maimed. Wyclif’s response is that there are four reasons that people feast one another, and that Christ feasted for these reasons. First, that he might be honoured; second, for a wedding; third, to increase friendship and charity; and fourth, so that he might feed the poor."<Ref>Sermones | ||
IV.13,, pp. 106/10–107/11.</Ref> | IV.13,, pp. 106/10–107/11.</Ref> | ||
| Line 27: | Line 77: | ||
by | by | ||
Sean Andrew Otto https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/43424/30/Otto_Sean_A_201311_PhD_thesis.pdf | Sean Andrew Otto https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/43424/30/Otto_Sean_A_201311_PhD_thesis.pdf | ||
---- | |||
== Tribute vs Offering == | |||
<nowiki> | |||
04503 ^החנמ^ minchah \@min-khaw’\@ from an unused root meaning to apportion, i.e. bestow; n f; {See TWOT on 1214 @@ "1214a"} | |||
: AV-offering 164, present 28, gift 7, oblation 6, sacrifice 5, meat 1; 211 | |||
: 1) gift, tribute, offering, present, oblation, sacrifice, meat offering | |||
:: 1a) gift, present | |||
:: 1b) tribute | |||
:: 1c) offering (to God) | |||
:: 1d) grain offering</nowiki> | |||
---- | |||
:04504 החנמ minchah (Aramaic) min-khaw’ corresponding to 04503; n f; {See TWOT on 2836 } | |||
AV-meat offering 1, oblation 1; 2 | |||
1) gift, offering | |||
1a) oblation, offering (to God through representative) | |||
1b) meal offering. | |||
== Sadducee / Essenes system of welfare == | |||
"Long before the time of the Herods, Sadducee priests with Essenes had instituted a system of welfare funds that is described in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_Document Cairo Damascus document], (CD) 14:12-16. While homeland Essenes in their villages practiced common property from which they cared for the indigent, those in the Diaspora were not close to each other, but they earned money. They drew on the ancient Israelite system of tithes - one-tenth of the produce given to priests. At the end of every month of 30 days they handed over the income of 3 days. The first day was for the priest, the next two for the Poor and Crippled, the categories of welfare recipients. Their numbers ensured that this was an effective system." http://www.peshertechnique.infinitesoulutions.com/WFW_Index/WFW_misc.html | |||
"It should be added here that one big difference between the organization of the brethren in the towns and those of the 'monastic' setttlement is that new members were not required to surrender theri property. There was none of the voluntary communism found in IQS. On the other hand, where the desert setaries practised common ownership, those of the towns contributed to the assistance of their fellows in need. Every man able to do so was ordered to hand ober a minumum of two days' wages a month to a charitable fund, and fom it the Guardian and the judges distributed help to the orphans, the poor, the old and sick, to unmarried women withot support and to prisoners held in foreign hands and in deed of redemption (CD 14:12-16)" | |||
"When two varieties of sectarian life are compared, numerous similalarities appear, especially in the light of 4QD and 4Qumran men lived together in seclusion; in the towns they were grouped in families, surrounded by non=members with whom they were in inevitable though exigious contact. Desert brotherhood kept apart from temple in Jerusalem; that of the towns participated in worship there. the 'Foundations' of the Quamran community had no counterparts in the towns; the judges of the towns had no counterparts at Quamran. the quamran Gaurdian was supported by a Council; the town Guardians acted independently. Unfaithful desert sectaries were sentenced to irrrevocable excommunication. or to temporary exclusion from the common life, or to suffer lighter penances; offenders from the towns were condemned to death (whether or not the verldict was calrried out) or committed to correctuve custody."" | |||
An Introduction to the Complete Dead Sea Scrolls | |||
By Géza Vermès http://books.google.com/books?id=Cdnn0yVsge4C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=CD+14:12-16+dead+sea+scrolls&source=bl&ots=hDfvBoQ3do&sig=HwSBqxje1-ywGbfIVE38VYpTL54&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ewkyVKbKLIypogTLgIHYAg&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=CD%2014%3A12-16%20dead%20sea%20scrolls&f=false | |||
== Footnotes == <references /> | |||
{{Template:Gregory-info}} | |||
Latest revision as of 07:13, 10 April 2024
Spirit of Qurban "The spirit of qurban breeds the spirit of sharing, sharing with fellow humans, especially those who are less able, and those who are in need. The spirit of qurban also gives birth to the spirit of sharing humanity more broadly..."
"Prayer and qurban lessons have vertical and horizontal dimensions. Prayer teaches us to build a good relationship with Allah. (hablun minallah), and berqurban teaches us to build good relations with fellow human beings (hablun minannas)."
The spirit defiled
"The spirit of qurban must give birth to a spirit of sharing, not only sharing with the people around us who are close to our homes, but it also needs to be extended to areas far from where we live, especially in the Terdepan, Terluar, dan Tertinggal areas (forefront, outermost, and disadvantaged) .[1]
The right of a desire for the "realization of social justice for all the people of Indonesia" where it may be imagined that wealth should not occur to accumulate only in a small number of people, while there are still too many poor people below the poverty line."
What is the means and method to bring about his vision of "social justice"?
He recites what seems to be the way of Abraham, Moses, all the prophets, and Jesus when he writes:
"The existence of inequality should not occur if we all have high awareness and are serious in providing assistance to people who are less able."
Then he goes down a path which man is repeatedly warned against when he calls upon the rulers of the world to provide "human resources" to increase "welfare" of the poor and weak".[2]
"The unequal condition of a nation cannot change if the nation itself does not try seriously to change it. This is in accordance with the word of Allah SWT. in QS. Ar-Ra’du verse 11 which clearly reminds us that changing the condition of a nation requires seriousness in making changes. The change that we want will not be realized if we do not have the ability or capacity. For this reason, we must strive to increase the ability or capacity and the desired changes intentionally (by design) must be designed in earnest."
"The government implements political will by making policies that favor the improvement of the welfare of small communities who are less able, as well as elements of society who are able to also conduct philanthropic movements, movements to love fellow human beings and human values, movements to contribute thoughts, time, energy, and possessions to help others who are less able, so that gradually and systemically will lift weak citizens into strong, and ultimately also strengthen Indonesia as a nation on the world stage."
"The second service, that of " the Corban " (oblation), or what we shall call the Communion Service, began by the priest vesting and washing his hands, after which the bread and wine (the latter mixed) were brought from the prothesis, or credence table, and placed on the altar."
On page 325 they talk about taking "part in the Corbano (Eucharist)..." PORTUGUESE DISCOVERIES DEPENDENCIES AND MISSIONS IN ASIA AND AFRICA pp358 Present State of the Syrian Christians. COMPILED BY THE REV ALEX J D D'ORSEY Cambridge Knight Commander of the Portuguese Order of Christ late Professor in Kin£s College London
"The question at hand is whether or not the recipient is worthy of the proferred alms. Only certain people are to be given alms, as laid out in the Gospel
"
"The spirit of qurban breeds the spirit of sharing, sharing with fellow humans, especially those who are less able, and those who are in need. The spirit of qurban also gives birth to the spirit of sharing humanity more broadl..."
"The spirit of qurban must give birth to a spirit of sharing, not only sharing with the people around us who are close to our homes, but it also needs to be extended to areas far from where we live, especially in the 3T areas (outermost, outermost, and disadvantaged) .*
https://umsida.ac.id/rektor-umsida-semangat-berqurban-semangat-bebagi/
"The second service, that of " the Corban " (oblation), or what we shall call the Communion Service, began by the priest vesting and washing his hands, after which the bread and wine (the latter mixed) were brought from the prothesis, or credence table, and placed on the altar."
On page 325 they talk about taking "part in the Corbano (Eucharist)..." PORTUGUESE DISCOVERIES DEPENDENCIES AND MISSIONS IN ASIA AND AFRICA pp358 Present State of the Syrian Christians. COMPILED BY THE REV ALEX J D D'ORSEY Cambridge Knight Commander of the Portuguese Order of Christ late Professor in Kin£s College London
"The question at hand is whether or not the recipient is worthy of the proferred alms. Only certain people are to be given alms, as laid out in the Gospel
Wyclif Medieval England
- And it seems to me that Christ explains in Luke 14:12–13 the sense which[a corporal work of mercy] had in the Old Testament: ‘When you make a dinner or a supper,’ he says, ‘call not your friends but call the poor, the maimed, the lame and the blind.’ Whereby it seems to me that he specifies completely to whom ought to be given bodily alms. Whereby it seems right that the poor be tripled in the words following, so that a rich bishop or other potentate of this world might be blind, but it is not the sense of the Lord that a man ought especially to feed him with corporal alms. Therefore, Christ intends [this] with regard to the poor blind, and for a similar reason he understands [it] with regard to the poor lame and the poor deformed as far as the body. And, as it seems to me, only to those ought the faithful to give bodily alms, because Christ, the most wise, is generally giving the doctrine of his church. <Rev>Sermones
IV.13,, p. 105/9–23: “Et videtur mihi quod Christus Luce XIV o, 12, 13 exponit sensum quem habet in veteri testamento:Cum facis, inquit, prandium aut cenam, noli vocare amicos sed voca pauperes debiles, claudos et cecos. Ubi videtur michi quod specificat quibus complete debet darielemosina corporalis; ubi certum videtur quod oportet pauperes in verbis sequentibus triplicare, ut posito quod dives episcopus vel alius potentatus seculi sit cecus non est sensus Domini quod homo debet specialiter pascere ipsum elemosina corporali, ideo Christus intendit de paupere ceco, et conformi racione intelligit de paupere claudo et de paupere debili quoad corpus. Et (ut videtur mihi) solum illis debet fidelis tribuere elemosinam corporalem, quia Christus summe sapiens dans generaliter doctrinam sue ecclesie.”</Ref>
"Wyclif deals with several objections to this position. The first objection is that Jesus accepted alms, though he was neither lame, nor blind, nor maimed. Wyclif’s response is that there are four reasons that people feast one another, and that Christ feasted for these reasons. First, that he might be honoured; second, for a wedding; third, to increase friendship and charity; and fourth, so that he might feed the poor."[3]
Pastoralia in John Wyclif’s Sermones
- Controversial
Preaching in Later Medieval England Pastoralia in John Wyclif’s Sermones
- Controversial
Preaching in Later Medieval England by Sean Andrew Otto https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/43424/30/Otto_Sean_A_201311_PhD_thesis.pdf
Tribute vs Offering
04503 ^החנמ^ minchah \@min-khaw’\@ from an unused root meaning to apportion, i.e. bestow; n f; {See TWOT on 1214 @@ "1214a"} : AV-offering 164, present 28, gift 7, oblation 6, sacrifice 5, meat 1; 211 : 1) gift, tribute, offering, present, oblation, sacrifice, meat offering :: 1a) gift, present :: 1b) tribute :: 1c) offering (to God) :: 1d) grain offering
- 04504 החנמ minchah (Aramaic) min-khaw’ corresponding to 04503; n f; {See TWOT on 2836 }
AV-meat offering 1, oblation 1; 2
1) gift, offering 1a) oblation, offering (to God through representative) 1b) meal offering.
Sadducee / Essenes system of welfare
"Long before the time of the Herods, Sadducee priests with Essenes had instituted a system of welfare funds that is described in Cairo Damascus document, (CD) 14:12-16. While homeland Essenes in their villages practiced common property from which they cared for the indigent, those in the Diaspora were not close to each other, but they earned money. They drew on the ancient Israelite system of tithes - one-tenth of the produce given to priests. At the end of every month of 30 days they handed over the income of 3 days. The first day was for the priest, the next two for the Poor and Crippled, the categories of welfare recipients. Their numbers ensured that this was an effective system." http://www.peshertechnique.infinitesoulutions.com/WFW_Index/WFW_misc.html
"It should be added here that one big difference between the organization of the brethren in the towns and those of the 'monastic' setttlement is that new members were not required to surrender theri property. There was none of the voluntary communism found in IQS. On the other hand, where the desert setaries practised common ownership, those of the towns contributed to the assistance of their fellows in need. Every man able to do so was ordered to hand ober a minumum of two days' wages a month to a charitable fund, and fom it the Guardian and the judges distributed help to the orphans, the poor, the old and sick, to unmarried women withot support and to prisoners held in foreign hands and in deed of redemption (CD 14:12-16)"
"When two varieties of sectarian life are compared, numerous similalarities appear, especially in the light of 4QD and 4Qumran men lived together in seclusion; in the towns they were grouped in families, surrounded by non=members with whom they were in inevitable though exigious contact. Desert brotherhood kept apart from temple in Jerusalem; that of the towns participated in worship there. the 'Foundations' of the Quamran community had no counterparts in the towns; the judges of the towns had no counterparts at Quamran. the quamran Gaurdian was supported by a Council; the town Guardians acted independently. Unfaithful desert sectaries were sentenced to irrrevocable excommunication. or to temporary exclusion from the common life, or to suffer lighter penances; offenders from the towns were condemned to death (whether or not the verldict was calrried out) or committed to correctuve custody.""
An Introduction to the Complete Dead Sea Scrolls By Géza Vermès http://books.google.com/books?id=Cdnn0yVsge4C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=CD+14:12-16+dead+sea+scrolls&source=bl&ots=hDfvBoQ3do&sig=HwSBqxje1-ywGbfIVE38VYpTL54&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ewkyVKbKLIypogTLgIHYAg&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=CD%2014%3A12-16%20dead%20sea%20scrolls&f=false
== Footnotes ==
- ↑ Rector Umsida
- ↑ "The government, religious leaders, community leaders, capital owners, and other related parties, need to raise new awareness in efforts to increase their attention and alignments in increasing human resources and the welfare of the poor and weak people."
- ↑ Sermones IV.13,, pp. 106/10–107/11.
About the author
Subscribe
HELP US at His Holy Church spread the word by SUBSCRIBING to many of our CHANNELS and the Network.
The more subscribers will give us more opportunity to reach out to others and build the network as Christ commanded.
Join the network.
Most important is to become a part of the Living Network which is not dependent upon the internet but seeks to form The bands of a free society.
You can do this by joining the local email group on the network and helping one another in a network of Tens.
His Holy Church - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/hisholychurch
Bitchute channel will often include material that would be censored.
https://www.bitchute.com/channel/o6xa17ZTh2KG/
Rumble Channel gregory144
https://rumble.com/user/gregory144
To read more go to "His Holy Church" (HHC) https://www.hisholychurch.org/
Brother Gregory in the wilderness.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJSw6O7_-vA4dweVpMPEXRA
About the author, Brother Gregory
https://hisholychurch.org/author.php
PreparingU - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hTUK8R89ElcXVgUjWoOXQ
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/HisHolyChurch