Conversation with Mosheh

The following began with a conversation on a Facebook group after I posted some information on Property rights.

I have recorded my Conversation with Mosheh at http://www.preparingyou.com in the hope of helping other people see the truth that will set them free if they seek it with all their heart in true love and faith.

The first response Mosheh was:

This is essentially correct... however... since the Federal government mandates that we cannot use anything but their fake money fiat..... we have no choice.... as such... any contract based on this is null and void... but you have to know this to be able to object... and even still other contracts such as the birth certificate and social security bind people to the system as it were.... this is the problem.... our nation went off of constitutional standards in 1933.... and started a state of never ending bankruptcy... a bankruptcy... which places all our land and possessions as collateral on the loans... and never ending debt created by the national banking act of 1933.... all of which is part of the NEW DEAL OF 1933..... where our nation went off of constitutional law.... and limits... and became an emergency war powers government... which is the point of this group.... to stand to restore constitutional law... limits... real money... and real property rights...

I replied:

You own no means by which to lawfully restore constitutional law or government. The contracts are not null. If you could use gold and silver as money what difference would it make now?

If you wish to buy land with substance from whom would you buy it?

No one owns a true and actual lawful title that you could purchase.

This is not a new problem in history but an old one and the solution is not a return to the constitution of the early 1800 for numerous reasons I share in one o our free books. But there are values we need to seek as a society and community which have long been neglected. There is much we forgot even before 1933 that could have helped us retain our natural God given rights.

Our individual natural rights will not return to us until we take back our individual responsibility in society.

• "My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger, Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth." Proverbs 6

You are back in the bondage of Egypt. The lack of knowledge in your own parents and grandparents may have put you there but there you are. I shared with you one chapter of that book but they are all free on the net as well as other books I have written about the constitution, the present and past bondage of society throughout man's history and the solutions that worked and those that did not work.

To which he responded"

that is a very weak attitude.... to suggest there is no way to set ourselves free.... we can be free... by restoring the sovereign capacity of our government to create real money and set its value... as such... all such debts.... to bankers... can be made null and void.... and real property rights restored.... simple.... anything that has been lost due to contracts.... can be restored by our governments. sovereign capacity to create law.... to write amendments.... to set the basis for law... to set constitutional standards for how we organize our nation.... and if we choose.... to end the debt... end the use of fiat... and restore real property rights... then we could... and the only thing stopping us... would be weak people who say we cannot..... and in the end... if they won't get out of the way... they will have to be removed.

I replied:

I did not suggest that there is no way to become free.

First, There is no right of government to set the value of money in a free society. If the government has the power to set the value of money then the people do not have that power or right and therefore they are no longer free.

If you would use "commodity money" then the value is set by the parties of the transaction and liberty can grow.

But you have gone beyond that and have lost the capacity to have a free economy for the present until you settle the issue of surety of your own debt. The rest of proverbs tells you what to do and rebelling against the truth of your own bondage is not included as a remedy.

Second, the government cannot restore what it no longer has. If you did not notice the government is plunged into international debt. The debt is not owed to government but owed by government and the people became a surety for that debt when they voluntarily signed up for Social Security, which is also bankrupt as the government is bankrupt. http://www.hisholychurch.org/news/articles/notsecuress.php

There is a solution but it will require that individuals recognize the problem and their own part in its making and then act in a way contrary to what has brought them to their present state.

The bondage of Egypt came because the people did not have their own provisions. They had to make a deal with government of Egypt where all land including gold and silver belonged to the government and the people only enjoyed "legal title". And the people also had to pay one fifth or 20% of their labor to the government annually.

When your parents struck a deal with FDR you did not have the advantage of Joseph setting the terms for you and there was no sealing of 20% so you will often pay more. The contract is the same kind of social contract and the government can make no law impairing the Obligation of Contracts. What you pay to keep your land and what you pay to have your labor is "tribute" and they are the result of social contract in the form of an application for benefits and security like free bread, 50,000,000 Americans get free bread with their EBT cards. The same amount on Medicaid and then there is unemployment and Social Security disability.... And what of public schools. Before 1910 most Americans were not educated in tax funded schools. 2000 years ago it was known that “The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.”

Your application makes you a surety for the debt of these and other programs. More than a hundred years before Christ it was written in "The Histories",

• “And hence when by their foolish thirst for reputation they have created among the masses an appetite for gifts and the habit of receiving them, democracy in its turn is abolished and changes into a rule of force and violence. For the people, having grown accustomed to feed at the expense of others and to depend for their livelihood on the property of others, as soon as they find a leader who is enterprising but is excluded from the houses of office by his penury, institute the rule of violence; and now uniting their forces massacre, banish, and plunder, until they degenerate again into perfect savages and find once more a master and monarch.” - The Histories 6.9.7-9

It was not the supreme court or the president that lapped up those benefits at the expense of their neighbors.

There is a solution. It will take humility and perseverance. It will take sacrifice and diligence.

Proverbs 23:1 says "When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what [is] before thee: And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat."

Or how about Psalms 69:22 "Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap." and, Romans 11:9 "And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:"

So the truth is what should have been for their welfare has become a trap and a snare.

Peter was right in 2 Peter 2:1 In our media, churches and public schools "false teachers among" us... "And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."

Like I said, all our books and articles are free and since many here think the constitution is your salvation you might want to start with the book, Contracts, Covenants and Constitutions
1. The Party of the first part
The Quiet Revolution
http://www.hisholychurch.org/study/covenants/ccc1.php

His following response reveals two things at least. He is not following the logic presented and he really wants to tule by power rather than right and does not want to focus on the individuals lack of righteousness. Of course there can be no rights without righteousness.

You cannot say our government does not have the power to restore constitutional law or standards..... as the government controls the armies... and has all the guns... and as such... can change the law any way it wants, and force its way.... and as long as it has the backing of the people then bankers and international debt holders can cry all they like... or go to war.... that is how it has always been... however... I see your point in that ... it would be best if the entire world... changed their ways... so that all nations could change back to proper standards of freedom and private property.... I offer a plan for this... an international solution... allowing the IMF and World Bank to lead the charge to set all nations free... and start over without any debts... http://mosheh.org/Message-for-Bankers.html in this way... the bankers... could take credit for solving for all world debt and also... ending poverty... and then... they would be loved instead of hated.

Mosheh Eesho Muhammad Al-faraj Thezion's economic solution site | A message for all... mosheh.org HomeTHE ISSUESAbortionBanks / Credit CardsbudgetBusiness Benefitscap and tradeThe ConstitutionCurrencydont ask dont tellDrugsEconomic RegulationEducationExcessive TaxationFair ElectionsFixing the EconomyFreedom and THE LAWForeign PolicyA global CaliphateGlobal WarmingIllegal ImmigrationIsraeliraq an...

My reply:

Actually I said "Second, the government cannot restore what it no longer has. " I also made it clear that you have lost your rights due to covetousness and sloth not because you have been robbed. As long as people want to blame someone else rather than take the responsibility for out own part in this boondoggle they will not be free nor will the get their property rights back.

The violent use of guns will not get back right most people willingly gave up to obtain benefits at the expense of their neighbor will not get them rightful ownership. There is a maxim of law that “Things captured by pirates and robbers do not change ownership.” Besides it is false hopes to imagine that the America has the will to win such a conflict. They did not have the will to stop the bail out. They do not even know what it was about or the will to find out.

It might "be best if the entire world... changed" but you need a better and mor practical plan. You need a plan where only 10 percent have to change... to make a real difference

I also do not think the IMF would or could solve any problem. It is usually causing problems.

In Acts 19, we see ministers of Christ being accused in Ephesus of being church robbers, guilty of sacrilege. What “church” were they robbing? The assembly at Ephesus was fashioned according to the doctrines of Diana, e.g. Artemus in the Asiatic traditions but few people know what that meant or its function. It’s center was a massive temple similar in design to the front of the US treasury. It could seat over 24,000 people. It had been built by 127 different governments, as it was strategically located on major trade routes. The most interesting thing was its purpose. It contained a great vault, which was considered one of the safest depositories in Asia Minor. This temple actually functioned as a bank and even minted coin. The “high priest” was also a credit officer making loans and collecting interest, managing valuable property, and in charge of security for those who deposited valuables in the temple in the course of commerce and trade. There were regular and sizable contributions by members in the hopes of a secure return, profit, or gain. There was coinage of money and the issuing of script. It was not only a bank, but a treasury on a national and international basis. It was not unlike the World Bank or IMF.

This reference to a temple as a bank is not uncommon. The temples in Egypt acted much like a bank: issuing script, coining forms of usurious money, making loans, and collecting interest. These temples of ancient times also acted as investment houses for mining, trade, and even military ventures.

It also provided social insurance through a system of Qurban or as an underwriter. Ot was the offer of benefits that brought the greatest loss of freedom as I have already explained. No the interesting point was that Christians were accused of robbing the temple. They were not breaking into the vault so what were they doing? If you knew what they were doing you would have a plan that could set you free.

To Heal Our Land
The Hateful Connection, The Unrighteous Corban, The Indictment
http://www.hisholychurch.org/sermon/healland.php
Heal Our Land HHC Sermons
What were those wicked2 ways? Were they the wicked ways of those who followed after Nimrod?3 Were they the wicked ways when the voice of the people4 went against the advice of Samuel and rejected God5 by electing Saul? Were they the wicked ways of Herod and the Pharisees in Judea when they were told...

Again he responds:

We elect a representative government to represent us... so that we... the people need not revolt or rise up... or have blood in the streets... that is the point of a representative government..... so that if our government should be corrupted.... we can replace it... and the amendment process allows us to change anything... and repeal anything.. anything a previous body of government has been stupid enough to do..... This is how a constitutional Republic works.. or is supposed to work... so the claim... that it cannot restore what it no longer has is false... it can... it can restore anything we demand it to restore... and those who stand in the way... are then identified as the enemy to our freedom.... and people who say no... or say it is not possible... are people who must be thrown down... and removed .... as they... work for the bankers by telling the people there is nothing we can do... which.... sadly.. seems .... you are doing... ??? are you doing that??? Or will you stand with the people to restore a proper government to restore our freedom??? or not????

I continue to try to carry the conversation in a direction where a real solution my be pursued but there is a resistance that keeps people from seeing their part in the problems of today. We see the five Stages of Grief taking their toll because there is denial of the truth that we have played a major part in the present deau of society and the rise of autocratic authority:

Actually you elect "law makers" now who rule over some things like equity and commerce. And then you entered equity with dozens of contractual agreements to obtain benefits at the expense of your neighbor.

All the government is doing is enforcing the contracts and collecting the debt you created by applying for benefits beyond the means of the government to pay for those benefits.

This is an age old story of people being brought into bondage and subjection by their own greed and avarice. You wont learn much about that history in your public schools.

The enemy of freedom is greed and avarice, sloth and apathy. The only greed and avarice, sloth and apathy we can do anything about without becoming tyrants is our own. If we do not seek righteousness in all that we do then we will not find our rights.

I did not say there is nothing that can be done.

I identified the real problem so that with the whole truth you can do something that works and has worked in history. It is the covetous greed as a society, their divers lust for benefits and the apathy of the the people that has brought the world into bondage. We have done this by applying the" the United States of America as a government… whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed: a democracy in a republic.” See The American Creed.

In a republic the leaders are titular. The term comes from the Latin idiom Libera Res Publica meaning "Free from things public".

You are not free from things public if you eat at the tribal trough of the United States of America as a government. “If you have not your own rations, you must feed out of your tribe’s hands, with all that implies.” It has long been a maxim of law that "He who takes the benefit must bear the burden."

There is a solution but I am not seeing it here so far or on the webpages linked here. Even if you could replace your government that does not make your debt go away. Early Americans didn't rid themselves of debt by their so called revolution. The real American revolution took place more than a century before.

The real revolution came with John Smith in Jamestown and also in Plymouth because the rule of law became "If you don't work, you don't eat!"

That is not the rule in America today as I have already shown.

You wont be able to get your rights back using your present prescribed method for several reasons. First there is not the will amongst the people much less the character to maintain a free state. People want their benefits and are afraid of the responsibility that has always been correlative to rights.

The states were republics. "We the people" in the constitution, if your read the link above to "The Party of the First Part" above. did not refer to the general population in the states who opposed the Constitution of the United States and would have voted it down if they had been given the choice. You are not a citizen of those state Republics but residence of your state. You changed your status to obtain benefits. "The Party of the First Part" is only the first chapter of the books that gives you the whole truth and points to a real solution which we detail out in other free books.

Early Americans had a right to abolish the bands which had connected them with the king. They were not revolting against law or debt or even the king. The king was revolting against the law and the Charters and they claimed a right because of his 'unwarranted usurpations'.

The debts did not go away by force of arms. We were not pirates. Today you have an insurmountable debt which cannot be overlooked for convenience.

What you imagine as usurpation of your rights is merely the enforcement of the "Obligation" or burden of the contracts that resulted from your application for benefits. How can you be free from things public and still attend public schools, and take public benefits as a member and surety for the debt of your government? What you think is an American Republic today has more in common with Rome in its decline. If you want a real solution you need to understand the whole problem.

Rome vs US Does history repeat itself because man does not repent? http://www.hisholychurch.org/news/articles/romeus.php

“‘Civil Law,’ ‘Roman Law’ and ‘Roman Civil Law’ are convertible phrases, meaning the same system of jurisprudence.”

But he does not seem to get it and responds again suggesting I become a candidate of some sort.

this... is why I ran for President... and why I formed this group.. to encourage people such as you... to run also... because as President... you or I... could declare a state of emergency... and be able to reverse everything that has occurred since 1933.... and the purpose of having 1000 candidates... is to drive home these fundamental issues in the minds of the people... so that their collective will... can be changed.... so that they will support a President who will restore their freedom and rights.... So will you sign up?? Will you run??? or will you make excuses?

My response continues directing him to the ways of the great liberators of the past:

When Moses came back to Egypt to set the people free from that system of "statutory labor" that was more like what we have today than what we are shown in the movie “The Ten Commandments” or a told in school.

Back then the people did not own the gold but used scarabs issued by their bank called temples as money and produced a similar form of bondage. They did not own their land or their labor and had to pay a portion of their labor to the government. Cecil B. DeMille did ask at the beginning of His movie, “Are men the property of the state? Or are they free souls under God? This same battle continues throughout the world.”

Well today they are property of the State and are literally "Merchandise" for the reason Peter states.

What did Moses do to prepare the people for liberty? How does running for president prepare the people?

Even Ron Paul knew he could not change the world until the people change. And what would be the point? Besides if he got elected someone would shoot him before he could do a thing. Besides he even said he could not change things the way you suggest.

Why don't you do what the real Moses did?

It is not what Jews are doing today. It was what the early Church did as Rome fell under the weight of its own corruption.

From the book Thy Kingdom Comes
Moses and the Altars
http://www.hisholychurch.org/.../TKC/TKCc3-1AltarsofClay.php